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SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

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Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#81

Post by fma »

Devil is in the details:

"From an eight-hour workday that you would normally experience in the office, now, without asking the workforce, certainly get 10-12 hours of work done on a daily basis. It’s because of that flexibility, people appreciate that,”...

Employees are working 50% more. That's why it's "more productive".

Personally, I'm at my desk way earlier, and way later than I should be. It's hard to disconnect when everything is still there. The time I spent on commuting is now spent working - rather than on a hobby and such. I'm certain I'm not the only one, and sure maybe some of you can "disconnect" and get more time to yourself or your family. Statistics from my employer (a very large multinational) says the same, too. Emails getting sent more on off hours, people logged in more.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#82

Post by whateveracct »

thelean12 wrote: post #66
whateveracct wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love not having a connection to my coworkers personally. I have some connection to the handful of people I directly collaborate with (like people who work on the same codebase), but that's it. And those interactions are far from daily, but enough that I have casual rapport. Nothing meaningful or personal required, but still a good working relationship.

I spend ~35% of my weekly waking hours with my coworkers. Despite my objection, I completely understand people who want WFH/remote. But I absolutely don't understand people with your sentiment.

I spend my waking hours with people too, if that helps explain the sentiment.

I'm definitely full & happy on the "people I have meaningful relationships with" front without coworkers adding on.

Spending 1/3 of my waking adult life with people who happen to have the same employer as me just isn't appealing. It's so easy to find people I have more in common with.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#83

Post by nucleardog »

heavyset_go wrote: post #25
dleslie wrote: post #9

I am _ridiculously_ more productive at home. When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers. Having impromptu hallway meetings mean that your peers, and subordinates, must keep an ear open for such events should they risk being left out of important decision making processes. Having watercooler conversat…

> When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers. What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic. That people have to work and babysit their kids during school. That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home works…

I'd add to the list "things that could be fixed if this turns out to not be temporary".

If the only place you have to set up your workspace is your kitchen table then yeah, that sucks hard. But most people I know living in tiny bachelor suites and stuff where this becomes necessary are doing so because that was what they could get/afford a reasonable distance from the office.

If your WFH transitions to permanent, then you can solve this. You don't need that downtown suite anymore. If enough people transition to WFH to take the pressure off of the downtown rental market, then even if you _want_ to stay downtown chances are you can get more space pretty cheaply.

If you don't have a proper desk, enough monitors, a good chair, or other equipment... That's basically a one time cost if you transition to WFH. Bug your employer to pay for it or let you take home some of the now unused office equipment. I know for me I've saved over $15k in the past year not having to go downtown. I can buy a new Herman Miller chair basically every month and throw the old one in the trash and still be breaking even.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#84

Post by solosoyokaze »

cortesoft wrote: post #77
solosoyokaze wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work remotely, you can relocate to a much lower cost of living area. This way you can get much more space, including a dedicated office. This also can lower costs enough that only one parent has to work, making the other available to watch the kids.

Well, two parents working means the kids would be in daycare normally, that wouldn’t change with WFH or not. This is more of a pandemic issue than a WFH issue. Also, the choice of whether one or both parents work is about more than just money. For one thing, it is basically choosing to end your career; we might not wish it to be so, but getting back in the workforce after being out for years is very difficult, and wi…

This is all true, but there's also a not insignificant group of people that do have both parents working solely for the money and wfh allows those people to move to a one income household since work is no longer coupled to real estate market.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#85

Post by CoastalCoder »

awillen wrote: post #49

I don't understand why we can't just all agree that some people are more productive at home and others are not. It depends on personality, type of role and type of business. We're literally talking about hundreds of millions of people here, so pretty much any universal statement is going to be wrong.

I think one reason we argue about this is we're trying to understand which factors affect WFH success, and if/how we can control them.

For example, your post seems to assume that wfh aptitude is a fixed quality of each worker. But after more discussion, it seems clear that the home office environment is a major consideration as well.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#86

Post by heavyset_go »

HWR_14 wrote: post #74
heavyset_go wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers. What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic. That people have to work and babysit their kids during school. That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home works…

>What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic How so (rhetorically asked)? > That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home workspace isn't adequate enough to get work done. These all seem like problems that arise from WFH. Especially two people working from home. Inadequate workspace and isolation at home. > Before the pand…

> These all seem like problems that arise from WFH. Especially two people working from home. Inadequate workspace and isolation at home.

WFH doesn't mean you're stuck at home. I'm someone who likes WFH but doesn't like working from my home. This is why, in pre-pandemic times, I'd purposely work from different locations of my choosing.

The pandemic necessitates that WFM means working from your home and only your home, and that isn't always ideal.

> Although I don't want to subsidize my employer's office rent, but I'm happy to direct their funds to a location I prefer.

Before the pandemic, many of the employers I worked with didn't have a problem with paying for coworking spaces.

> How do you work on a small screen, touchpad, and a laptop keyboard. I'm honestly curious, because I've tried it many times and there must be some tricks I need to start employing.

Beyond using a vertical mouse and offloading a lot of compute to my home and cloud clusters, I don't have any good advice to give, unfortunately. I've been using laptops for decades and they're just my preferred way to work.

> (And sea air seems like it would kill your electronics.)

As long as it isn't humid out, you're good. What it really kills are cars that are parked outside. They'll begin to rust after a year or two, brakes will need to be replaced sooner, etc.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#87

Post by whitexn--g28h »

nucleardog wrote: post #83
heavyset_go wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers. What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic. That people have to work and babysit their kids during school. That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home works…

I'd add to the list "things that could be fixed if this turns out to not be temporary". If the only place you have to set up your workspace is your kitchen table then yeah, that sucks hard. But most people I know living in tiny bachelor suites and stuff where this becomes necessary are doing so because that was what they could get/afford a reasonable distance from the office. If your WFH transitions to permanent, the…

Living in the city allows me to go to restaurants, drink as much as I like, and safely walk back home. I can go to a concert and not have to worry if I’ll miss the last train. I can reduce my carbon footprint by driving less. Moving everyone out of the cities and into the suburbs would be an environmental disaster.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#88

Post by sokoloff »

whitexn--g28h wrote: post #87
nucleardog wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd add to the list "things that could be fixed if this turns out to not be temporary". If the only place you have to set up your workspace is your kitchen table then yeah, that sucks hard. But most people I know living in tiny bachelor suites and stuff where this becomes necessary are doing so because that was what they could get/afford a reasonable distance from the office. If your WFH transitions to permanent, the…

Living in the city allows me to go to restaurants, drink as much as I like, and safely walk back home. I can go to a concert and not have to worry if I’ll miss the last train. I can reduce my carbon footprint by driving less. Moving everyone out of the cities and into the suburbs would be an environmental disaster.

The suburbs and rural areas are going to boom (in relative terms) if remote working becomes normalized in even 30% of the tech workforce.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#89

Post by sokoloff »

walshemj wrote: post #52
VectorLock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm okay with spending the X% percent of hours I would be commuting doing productive work, and double-okay with my employer reaping the productivity benefits from it.

Why - its not like your getting paid for it.

If my salaried job used to make me commute, then work 8 hours, then commute home, I think it's a mistake to think that they were only paying me for the middle part.

When I negotiated the position and considered my options, you bet I considered the commute as part of the deal.

Re: SBA executives ‘beyond doubt’ that teleworking employees are more productive

#90

Post by sokoloff »

emodendroket wrote: post #29
someonehere wrote: post #14

Reading this makes me happy. I almost read this as the door is open for more people to apply and work remote. That to me means someone who would have never considered working for SBA or moving to work there, can now be employed from anywhere there is internet. Maybe this is how we revitalize towns that were wiped out by outsourcing the labor pool (read China manufacturing)?

If nobody ever needs to be in an office it would seem like there is more temptation to hire outside the US for these jobs too.

That's true in general, but probably untenable for SBA jobs specifically (just from the optics of it).
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