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Great Vowel Shift

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81–90 of 275 posts

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#81
Wow. I was (again) reading about this whole thing last week. Lot-cloth, Father-brother, cot-caught, Psalm by itself...

If you are interested to know more, take a look at the way native speakers of other languages utter "a" and "o" and their variations. Fascinating, to say the least.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is a great lingua franca IMO because of its inherent decentralization and willingness to accept new words. There is no academy regulating its use, as is the case with French and Spanish.

In the case of Spanish, I can't speak for French, having an academy (the RAE in this case) regulating the language sounds like a problem on paper, but really isn't a problem in practice. The RAE accepts Americanisms and treats American Spanish just as it would European Spanish (referring to the continent(s), not the country) and encourages lingusitic diversity. Anglicisms are only discouraged when an acceptable Spani…

Similarly in Norway the authority in charge often proposes Norwegian alternatives to Anglicisms, but they'll yield if an import becomes dominant, and will even reverse official reforms if they fail to gain traction.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#85
post #60

Here's what it'd look like (taken from Reddit): "The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English…

I've half-jokingly, proposed a similar change to Spanish, basically: z, c (as in "ce", "ci"): use "s" (non european spanish speakers do not distinguish these sounds anyway) v: always use "b" c (as in "ca", "co", "cu"), q(u) (as in "que", "quiso"): replaced with "k" w: why do we have this letter?! use "u" y (as vowel): use "i" (basically only used as "and" in Spanish) y (as consonant): stays like it is now (important…

I would prefer B and V to keep being disctint letters.

As far as I know, when properly pronounced, the V in Villa doesn't sound the same as the B in Billete.

Sure, sometimes they blend into each other, but not always.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#86

Here's what it'd look like (taken from Reddit): "The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English…

Believe it or not, that joke originated in a 1946 issue of Astounding Science Fiction. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26468884 and the links back from there.

(We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26809658.)

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#87
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've half-jokingly, proposed a similar change to Spanish, basically: z, c (as in "ce", "ci"): use "s" (non european spanish speakers do not distinguish these sounds anyway) v: always use "b" c (as in "ca", "co", "cu"), q(u) (as in "que", "quiso"): replaced with "k" w: why do we have this letter?! use "u" y (as vowel): use "i" (basically only used as "and" in Spanish) y (as consonant): stays like it is now (important…

I would prefer B and V to keep being disctint letters. As far as I know, when properly pronounced, the V in Villa doesn't sound the same as the B in Billete. Sure, sometimes they blend into each other, but not always.

Yes, in "proper" spanish they sound different. That said, except when exaggerating, I know noone who makes the distinction in day to day conversations!

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#88
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've half-jokingly, proposed a similar change to Spanish, basically: z, c (as in "ce", "ci"): use "s" (non european spanish speakers do not distinguish these sounds anyway) v: always use "b" c (as in "ca", "co", "cu"), q(u) (as in "que", "quiso"): replaced with "k" w: why do we have this letter?! use "u" y (as vowel): use "i" (basically only used as "and" in Spanish) y (as consonant): stays like it is now (important…

I would prefer B and V to keep being disctint letters. As far as I know, when properly pronounced, the V in Villa doesn't sound the same as the B in Billete. Sure, sometimes they blend into each other, but not always.

At least not where I live, that's it!

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#89
post #73
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially its very large vocabulary Vocabulary isn't a problem IMHO. The fact that I have to learn each word twice (how to write it and how to say it) - is. I was learning German for 3 years at school. After the first month I had no problems with pronunciation. Now after almost 2 decades of not using it I can still pronounce any German word I see. I've been learning English since I was 10 or so. I'm 36 now. I stil…

> I still have many English words I know (and use correctly in writing) that I'm not sure how to pronounce. Do you mind sharing some examples? As a native English speaker, I'm so curious! Do you think that if you heard them without seeing the word you'd realize what the written form was? Or might there be words where you know the written form and the spoken form and don't realize it's the same word?

For me it was "awry" and "lichen". I didn't even recognize "lichen" when I first heard it spoken (on an episode of QI).

There are quite a few others that tripped me up over the years like "cleanliness".

In general, "Chaos" aka "Dearest creature in creation" shows this problem (I would still struggle to read it even if I know every word there): https://pages.hep.wisc.edu/~jnb/charivarius.html

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#90
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know John McWhorter, but is this the "second languages are hard" argument? I tend to get annoyed when people compare the relative difficulty of learning a language they spoke 16 365 18 hours vs ... 18 hours.

McWhorter is a linguist (as well as a political commentator). His argument isn't that English is easier because people already speak it natively. Instead, English lost a lot of its complexity (especially around suffixes) during the Viking invasions when it was taken up by adult speakers. This doesn't mean that learning the language is easy--no language really is. And English has some things that make it harder to mas…

From a Slavic perspective, the really complex thing about English grammar is the sequence of tenses.

Having spoken English for almost 30 years by now, I am still not sure if "X has died" or "X died" is correct, or in which context.

But the other direction would be worse. Languages like Czech, with its 20+ classes of declension, must be a true nightmare for any English native speaker to learn.

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