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How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

independent.co.uk

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Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#81

Post by tremon »

mc32 wrote: post #52
tremon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To draw a parallel with filesharing: "Of course, the more onerous the path the get legal movies, the more appealing illegal downloads become, so there's a profit-maximizing point somewhere along that integral." We've all witnessed the war-on-piracy that the powers-that-be have been pursuing a few decades ago, and we've all seen it fail spectacularly. Similar to the drugs story, by going after the Napster-type filesha…

If we look at entertainment we see that ease of access has increased viewership (consumption). In terms of drugs we want to wean people off of addiction. Of course making drug use less dangerous is better than not, but it does nothing to mitigate the issue of having a population addicted to harmful substances.

it does nothing to mitigate the issue of having a population addicted to harmful substances.

The experiences of Portugal and The Netherlands show otherwise:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-a...

https://drugpolicy.org/blog/america-take-note-three-lessons-...

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#82

Post by sn_master »

monocasa wrote: post #48
cylon13 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate as to why you think someone should avoid going to NA or AA because it's not "evidence"-based? It's essentially just a community where people share stories and support each other, not some religious cult.

I mean, like half of the twelve steps are all 'stop thinking and give yourself over to God because you're broken and can't save yourself, only adherence to the program and god can'. At least in the south I've seen them push the cult aspect of it hard. 1) We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. 2) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.…

There is no requirement to follow the 12 steps. You can pick and choose or follow none at all and just do your own thing. No one ever gets "punished" because they didn't follow step whatever.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#83

Post by RichardCA »

Nydhal wrote: post #65

What this article totally fails to mention is the new widespread reduction techniques from the Ephedra plant (also called Mormon Tea) which grows widely around the world and even in the south western USA! The Iraq route goes Afghanistan -> Iran -> Iraq -> ... https://cen.acs.org/policy/global-health/Afghanistans-crysta... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedrine#Recreational_use https://twitter.com/mansfieldintinc/sta…

This is good too, there's a lot of history to take in.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#84

Post by baq »

drran wrote: post #76
el_nahual wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, drugs exist and are available now . So you shouldn't think of the options as "drugs are legal and available vs drugs are illegal and unavailable". They are available in either case! Making drugs legal means that one can control the points and conditions of distribution. So one could require licensing, education, or even controlled application. Sure, you can take good, cheap, heroin, but you have to take it her…

Why we should care about drug addicts? They care about their drug only instead of our society.

or maybe the addiction is so strong that they can't not care even if they try. some of them are quite unhappy that they can't quit, because withdrawal is so strong they need to be high to not suffer greatly, or in case of alcohol, even die.

yes, addiction is bad. fix the root cause of drug use instead of pretending you can fix the world with inefficient laws.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#85

Post by thisisbrians »

mc32 wrote: post #6
el_nahual wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the reality on the ground says that drugs being illegal does not actually make them unavailable. That much is clear! So the idea behind legalization is not "it should be easier to do drugs!" but rather: 1. It's already easy to do drugs, so how can we make it safer to do drugs? 2. Precisely because of drugs' illegality, extraordinary rents are collected by some of the worst humans on earth. Can we make drugs leg…

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Better educating the masses about dosing and risks prevents some of the worst outcomes (like overdoses). Fostering a culture where the risks are discussed openly in society might help folks make better decisions and avoid addiction in the first place. Additionally, having the option for medically supervised detox (and the drugs required to do that safely) without fear of prosecution is a complete game-changer. Really, I think this represents a shift in mindset from punishing individuals for their addictions to handling it as a societal issue that needs a comprehensive solution.

Here's a good read on how Portugal has handled things (to quite some success): https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalizatio...

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#86

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #71
elmomle wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://silvermistrecovery.com/blog/2018/09/2019-guide-the-l... It isn't a 1:1 causal link--virtually nothing is. But there's very strong evidence that unprocessed trauma is one of the core drivers of addiction. It's constructive to think of drugs and addictive behaviors as emotional crutches. You don't help people with problems walking by making crutches illegal; you do so by focusing on treating the root cause, whi…

I’m sympathetic to your POV. However, sometimes there is no root cause other than “Hyacinth had me try sniffing some glue and I got hooked”. Sure, some kids can say “no”, but many give in to peer pressure and after a few times there is no going back. I do agree with a good therapeutic environment, but relapses are common, so it takes vigilance and follow up and so on.

[deleted]

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#87

Post by subsaharancoder »

monocasa wrote: post #48
cylon13 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate as to why you think someone should avoid going to NA or AA because it's not "evidence"-based? It's essentially just a community where people share stories and support each other, not some religious cult.

I mean, like half of the twelve steps are all 'stop thinking and give yourself over to God because you're broken and can't save yourself, only adherence to the program and god can'. At least in the south I've seen them push the cult aspect of it hard. 1) We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. 2) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.…

Curious, which one of the 12 steps you've listed have a "cult aspect" to them? FYI Characteristics of a cult http://cultresearch.org/help/characteristics-associated-with...

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#88

Post by shawnz »

wil421 wrote: post #46
tcj_phx wrote: post #19

Stimulants -- amphetamines, cocaine, etc -- have physiological effects sort-of similar to Mono Amine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOI). MAOIs were sold as the first generation of anti-depressant drugs. These substances have mood-elevating benefits sort-of similar to cocaine and amphetamine, but without the euphoria and crash. Later generations of anti-depressants are less effective that the MAOIs, but MAOIs fell out use beca…

How’s does ADHD medication compare to Meth? Is it the higher dosage with Meth? When I took Aderall it said methamphetamine salt.

Methamphetamine is an effective ADHD medication (brand name Desoxyn). Adderall contains amphetamine (not methamphetamine). Although as far as how it compares to amphetamine, I would say they are nearly identical on a dose equivalent basis.

Here is an interesting look at the differences between ADHD medications: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#89

Post by wahern »

nickik wrote: post #62
kaesar14 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 4? I imagine American occupation was "good" for employment while it was going on - providing a steady flow of income from soldiers and the military paying for goods and services while we were there.

Also, no longer being under international blockade after 10 years might help.

The unemployment rate was pretty constant from 1992 to 2012. "20 years" in my previous comment was ambiguous, but I had meant the 20 years prior to 2012, not 20 years prior to today. Which, now that you mention it, is also a curious thing--the constancy even after the blockade was lifted.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#90

Post by sneak »

sn_master wrote: post #44
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he said "evidence-based," he's referring to statistically recorded rates of recidivism. You are correct, NA and AA are primarily social clubs, and there's no harm in that. But if the point is to recover from addiction, keep looking.

recidivism rates are applicable to rehab centers which offer multi-week in-patient programs. they're all legally required to provide them, and most are pretty sad (50%+ is typical). no one claims attending a meeting with a few random people and talking is a "recovery program" by any stretch of imagination. they're completely different things.

> no one claims attending a meeting with a few random people and talking is a "recovery program" by any stretch of imagination. they're completely different things.

In my experience that is a false claim: AA/NA proponents frequently assert that they can help you recover from addiction.

Their religion-based system has about the same probability of helping you recover from addiction as not going to AA/NA.

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