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A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

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Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#81

I sincerely hope this does not come across as provocative in the worst possible way, but what exactly defines this guy as Far-Right? I understand we're not given full context in this short article and that label is likely all too accurate, but it feels out of place as the rest of the writeup goes on to just describe him as a run-of-the-mill nutcase obsessed with the "big tech" boogeyman.

It's sad you feel as if you have to apologize preemptively for asking a question. It is a fair enough question, as there is a certain amount of bilateral support for bombing data centers. There are conceivable justifications for it from many points on the political spectrum. That said, he talks like a right winger, not like a radical environmentalist or a militant communist.

>It's sad you feel as if you have to apologize preemptively for asking a question.

Unfortunately, without disclaimers someone is bound to misinterpret the comment. If the comment isn't defensively worded in a way to explicitly prevent bad faith interpretations, someone is bound to come tilting. It is difficult if not impossible to imagine all the ways a given comment might be interpreted. Even seemingly unambiguous passages are construed to mean opposing things.

That's just where we are.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#82
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"this is so right that I am justified in destroying property, people to get it done" I do not think that this is necessarily a sign of something "haywire in the mind". The powerful use this logic all the time, and yet it is not a mainstream view that ordering an air strike, for instance, is clearly a sign of mental illness. Perhaps it should be.

It’s only wrong if you fail. If you succeed you were a “revolutionary”.

True. Also, until you win, you are a "terrorist," unless backed by a major power, whose media will call you a "freedom fighter."

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#83
post #27
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because leftist used revolutionary terror to achieve their goals as well. It's not whataboutism if they have a history of doing it.

Whataboutism doesnt mean that what was brought up is not true, just that it distracts from the original criticism. The classic example is “Soviet Union has problems? Well, look how the US is treating black people.”

It was in context of possible mindsets. That's not whataboutism either. Because it talks about possible mindsets not current state of affairs.

No one was talking about current far right or far left politics in US until the message I replied to.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#84
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While the riots of last summer were not characterized as terrorism, You can see how this destroys anything that you're about to say, right? To try to engage with your point: there's a difference between a demonstration (BLM) and bombing a church (far right). There's a difference between riots (BLM) and mass murder at a synagogue (far right). There's a difference between organising a march (BLM) and driving cars int…

It is hard to have this discussion here. It is almost as if you didn't read my comment at all. Instead you go straight for inflammatory. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/26/580677742/the-massive-case-of... From NPR (2018), widely regarded as having a left slant, "The Massive Case Of Collective Amnesia: The FBI Has Been Political From The Start"

When someone talks about mass shootings in churches (Charleston - 9 dead), and synagogues (Pittsburgh - 11 dead, 6 wounded; Powey - 1 dead, 3 wounded) or cars being driven into protestors (Charlottesville - 1 dead, 19 injured) and you pop off to say [okay I know these aren't terrorism but how about these examples of property damage? The left is just as bad] you are being inflammatory.

You posting that NPR link is incoherent. For that to make any sense you'd have to be claiming that, during the Trump administration, the FBI was deceptively hiding terrorism by the left and by islamicists and pushing excessive focus on the right.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#85
post #55
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason a getaway driver is part of a bank robbery despite "not doing anything illegal."

Jesus. Just showing up at a rally at your elected representatives place of employment is now the same as “being a getaway driver at a bank robbery”?

Given that he said he attended the riot, and was disappointed people didn't show up armed, I think it's pretty obvious what his intent was. Let's not pretend he was some innocent bystander just there for a political rally. Whether he actually entered or did not is open to interpretation given that's just what he said unless there's actual evidence by way of pictures confirming he was even at the riot in the first place.

A LOT of people said they didn't go inside once they discovered they'd potentially be facing prison time for doing so. A LOT of people lied.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#86
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with quite a few left-wing friends, this comment was pretty funny to read. I have no idea why people think they can pick apart the inner machinations of the minds of people they've seemingly never spoken to, not into whose ideology they have the slightest insight or interest. Very strong "boomer opining at their suburban kitchen table about the problem with today's youths" energy. Any given person who iden…

Almost everyone identifies as anti-fascist. That's why references to Hitler are references to things considered universally awful. A problem many have with Antifa is that they took a term and made it their own, implying that everyone else is not against fascism.

I think the biggest misunderstanding is that Antifa is some sort of group or organised movement.

That's it. Of course being anti-fascist or anti-capitalist are some of the main talking points of left wing protesters and sure, there might be groups of organised protestors. But there is no one organisation behind it all and that is the misconcenption many people have when they hear the word Antifa.

No one should be afraid or ashamed of claiming to be anti-fascist, just because some people who have claimed to be that have not acted ethically!

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#87

I wonder, does such a person share a lot of characteristics of his mental state with someone who on the other side of the political spectrum, breaks into factory chicken farms to free birds, or who torches an entire dealership of SUVs to save the planet? Is there not something a little bit fascinating in realizing that regardless of the particular political belief driving them to do something, there must be something…

The US army must be full of these “crazy” people then, no? And the same with Silicon Valley, which keeps talking about disrupting industries, without regard for the people working in those industries.

>And the same with Silicon Valley, which keeps talking about disrupting industries, without regard for the people working in those industries.

It depends on what you mean by "disrupt". If you're talking about gig economy startups, I'm inclined to agree. However, if you're talking about "disrupt" in the sense of "providing a better product/service than incumbents", I don't see what's crazy about that, even if it does cause some people to lose their jobs. We shouldn't have to cling on to a worse way of doing things just so we keep people employed[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to have this discussion here. It is almost as if you didn't read my comment at all. Instead you go straight for inflammatory. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/26/580677742/the-massive-case-of... From NPR (2018), widely regarded as having a left slant, "The Massive Case Of Collective Amnesia: The FBI Has Been Political From The Start"

When someone talks about mass shootings in churches (Charleston - 9 dead), and synagogues (Pittsburgh - 11 dead, 6 wounded; Powey - 1 dead, 3 wounded) or cars being driven into protestors (Charlottesville - 1 dead, 19 injured) and you pop off to say [okay I know these aren't terrorism but how about these examples of property damage? The left is just as bad] you are being inflammatory . You posting that NPR link is in…

> Instead of looking for equivalence or ranking which side is worse, perhaps we should blanketly condemn political violence.

>You posting that NPR link is incoherent

From where I stand your entire reply is incoherent and inflammatory. You accuse me of seeking equivalence before citing the most inflammatory examples of political violence by one side. This despite the fact that I explicitly suggest that equivalence or ranking isn't interesting to me.

Historical context of the FBI's evolving political agendas may help to illustrate that we may in fact be inside of a bias bubble. Especially if you are asserting that the FBI is apolitical. The mainstream presses' presentation of political violence last summer may also be instructive.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure why it is important which flavor is more terrorist-y. It seems like an irrelevant partisan distinction. I'd like to avoid that debate, thanks.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#89
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone talks about mass shootings in churches (Charleston - 9 dead), and synagogues (Pittsburgh - 11 dead, 6 wounded; Powey - 1 dead, 3 wounded) or cars being driven into protestors (Charlottesville - 1 dead, 19 injured) and you pop off to say [okay I know these aren't terrorism but how about these examples of property damage? The left is just as bad] you are being inflammatory . You posting that NPR link is in…

> Instead of looking for equivalence or ranking which side is worse, perhaps we should blanketly condemn political violence. >You posting that NPR link is incoherent From where I stand your entire reply is incoherent and inflammatory. You accuse me of seeking equivalence before citing the most inflammatory examples of political violence by one side. This despite the fact that I explicitly suggest that equivalence or…

at the end of the day, it is important which flavor is actually terrorism, and the fact that it tends to be concentrated in neo-islamic and neo-fascist right wing people is a tool that we can use to help fix the problem.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's crossover but I don't think those two groups are motivated by the same thing. My observation is that far-right activists tend to feel that they're being deliberately stabbed in the back by the powers that be, rather than seeing themselves as collateral damage. They're also significantly more likely to be paranoid, and they perceive their targets as you would an invading army. Far-left activism isn't l…

> They don't perceive The Man as sadistic, they perceive him as disinterested. This doesn't fit with the whole oppression thing where essentially everything is done to hurt $class, $minority, or $cause. The social thing seems accurate. There are far right networks, but their violent extremists appear to be mostly loners, which seems to be extremely rare on the far left. The gender distribution is a good point as well…

The left-wing narrative is usually "[group A] is hurt by [issue and thus group B]", whereas the far-right is, "[group C] will hurt you, if you let them." I think it's a deliberate difference. The far right would never say Jews were accidentally conspiring against Americans, it wouldn't help them. But it helps the far left to say their issues are inadvertent, that [villain] can't help his bias, or that he doesn't have to do it deliberately.

Left-wing narratives are often decoupled from intention (e.g. systemic and unconscious bias) because it makes them easier to propogate, whereas right-wing narratives are the opposite - intention is ascribed whether or not it's there, also because it helps the narrative propagate. They're selling to different human tendencies, I think.

Watch the far-right protest. Their eyes usually convey fear or animalistic aggression, even when they're dominant. Far-left groups carry very different emotions, even violent ones like Antifa.

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