I'm afraid we'll always be jumping to new apps. If we jump ship from Signal to Matrix, as some people suggest, then I fear that in 2-5 years, Matrix will morph into something unacceptable, just as Signal has.
Et Tu, Signal?
81–90 of 459 posts
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#82I definitely agree with the article that it felt a bit like a betrayal. I've pushed some friends and family to use it over Telegram despite significant usability issue, and now I see that instead of implementing some IMO basic features like proper message sync and easy backup when you get a new phone, they prefer to implement a... micropayment system? Based on some niche altcoin which doesn't even exist on mainstream…
> easy backup when you get a new phone I just recently got a new phone, and used the new feature to do this (uses wi-fi direct) and I have to say it seemed like it would be easy enough for non-techy users to use.
Try transferring from an iOS phone to Android. Try transferring messages to a new desktop (you can't).
It's 2021, I don't want to be platform locked and none of the other popular messaging apps have that issue.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#83I have met Moxie and followed his work for over a decade. He is one of the most ethical people in the information security industry. I would suggest people put down their pitch forks and think this through carefully. I can’t imagine this was done lightly or without considering Signal’s core mission in a highly ethical context. There is a lot of anti-crypto sentiment these days. Does this announcement actually change…
I am willing to wait until the dust settles before passing judgement, but if the facts in the linked article - that the exchange backing this basically unknown currency is financially tied to Signal in some way - then it's hard to not see _potential_ conflicts of interest here, and be suspicious of the motivations involved.
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... etc..
As for Moxie.. he has indeed done great work, but a lot of people, ethical or otherwise, get to a point in their life where they just want to get paid and move on.
I'm not saying that's the case here, I have no insider info, but it has certainly happened before.
All I hope is that this is an opt-in feature that you can easily ignore or disable, and it's not constantly being pushed on us and getting in the way of just sending messages.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#84I was recently pulled onto Signal by a non-techie who values his privacy. I talked to him about Matrix/Element and he had no idea what that was, but was very happy with Siganl. I must admit, the app is very nice. All I had to do was give it access to my contacts and bam, I am now able to chat with all my contacts. By comparison, Element is much more like a chat program than a phone messenger. It's good for "I want to…
Would you say this is a weakness of element or matrix itself? In principle you could made a clone of signal, WhatsApp, telegram etc. using mobile APIs right?
I think it's 100% the client. But this is the problem with a federated system like this: it increases your marketing surface without providing apparent value to the consumers. Consumers don't want choice, they want the one product that will do exactly what they need it to do. When I am presented with "choose your client from this list of 5-15" my eyes glaze over. I just want to try the thing. That isn't to say that there shouldn't be choices, there absolutely should. But the problem is that there needs to be a very easy short and gentle on ramp for new users.
Element is none of those things. It's name is so forgettable and so generic that people often don't even know whether it's an app, a library, a website, etc. The mobile app is yet another chat app with nobody on it until I do the legwork of pulling them in. It's just not usable on day one after I already spent the time to figure out which app I need. In the meantime, Signal can become your default messenger on Android within a few minutes and do everything you used to be able to do but more and better.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#85I have met Moxie and followed his work for over a decade. He is one of the most ethical people in the information security industry. I would suggest people put down their pitch forks and think this through carefully. I can’t imagine this was done lightly or without considering Signal’s core mission in a highly ethical context. There is a lot of anti-crypto sentiment these days. Does this announcement actually change…
Unfortunately the fact that the code updates were hidden from GitHub while this feature was in development and the fact that the announcement doesn’t really address the risks argue against this being an ethical move.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#86This seems to ignore the fact that absolutely nothing about using Signal requires that one use this additional feature. It's not required if you don't like it. Yet it insists on it being a pump and dump scam, without evidence. :(
But it requires extra code and that code can have additional bugs.
And it adds a risk that you fat-finger something disastrous.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#87It sounds like they are trying to increase their revenue/profits and think this is the best way. I get that it is hard, because when everyone is anonymous then it is hard to collect money from people. Perhaps make some way to donate/subscription for signal a la pay what you want? I love Signal and would pay for it if I could.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#88I have met Moxie and followed his work for over a decade. He is one of the most ethical people in the information security industry. I would suggest people put down their pitch forks and think this through carefully. I can’t imagine this was done lightly or without considering Signal’s core mission in a highly ethical context. There is a lot of anti-crypto sentiment these days. Does this announcement actually change…
I believe Moxie to be a person of integrity, therefore I'm happy to wait and see how this pans out.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#89Would you pay for it if they just asked money? I use Threema and I paid for it, but most people simply refuse that (even at that price), so the others don't even try it. So how are companies supposed to make money? The usual ways; get larger and larger investor rounds and then get out (resign and sell shares for personal reasons or whatever) or sell the company before it all collapses. Not sure if that or tokensales is worse; they both can be used for good and bad.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#90The piece doesn't note the additional fun fact that the website to buy the tokens is blocked in the US presumably to avoid an SEC investigation. edit: Blocked at the cloudflare level without even an explanation of why if you go there.
> fun fact It's absolutely hilarious, the SEC has gone after so many different coins, ICO's and exchanges now who have gone to far greater lengths in excluding Americans. The first person who gets around it opens you up to all sorts of civil and criminal charges. I don't understand how after years of this happening any company thinks it's somehow safe with nothing more than an IP geofence.
If they make reasonable attempts to keep out Americans, requiring IP proxies and checking a box saying "I am not an American," then is it really their fault when Americans end up using it?