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MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

mitadmissions.org

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Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#81

Post by currymj »

ericmay wrote: post #36

One question on my mind (as someone who has a master's degree and engineering degree and has never taken the ACT/SAT) is how kids will go about showing pure intellectual merit? Like let's say you grow up ok but you can't really afford to join the ski club or for a tutor and maybe you work in the evenings but you crush the SAT/ACT because you're incredibly intelligent. How will universities like MIT take that into acc…

it's hard to show intellectual merit using the SAT, because the test isn't hard enough so people just max out the score. the 25th percentile student at MIT got 790/800 for the math section.

it definitely does make a difference for bright students who do unexpectedly well -- but it gets them into "merely" good schools not ultra-selective institutions like MIT.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#82

Post by option »

helen___keller wrote: post #68
ericmay wrote: post #36

One question on my mind (as someone who has a master's degree and engineering degree and has never taken the ACT/SAT) is how kids will go about showing pure intellectual merit? Like let's say you grow up ok but you can't really afford to join the ski club or for a tutor and maybe you work in the evenings but you crush the SAT/ACT because you're incredibly intelligent. How will universities like MIT take that into acc…

I would challenge if ACT/SAT is much about pure intellectual merit, considering how much one can boost their score with dedicated tutors and so on, but I digress. How to show intellectual merit other than standardized tests without relying on rich parents: (a) Straight As (b) (if applicable) Take all AP courses available at your high school (c) (if applicable) Take additional college courses through community college…

yeah, try finding good “free” math club when kid is 6-7 y.o.

And by the time there are actually viable free options the kids are already far behind.

Preparing for tests are much cheaper than joining good clubs and/or preparing to write a food essays

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#83

Post by nickysielicki »

kirykl wrote: post #67
nickysielicki wrote: post #61

> Students who have not already taken the SAT/ACT, and cannot find a forthcoming opportunity to do so safely are discouraged from taking the test, in order to protect their personal health, as well as the health of their family and community. We will not make any negative presumptions regarding academic preparation based solely on the absence of SAT/ACT scores, but will instead make the best, most informed decision w…

Loving that full scholarship at a competing school

That option existed regardless -- being forced to take it isn't exactly a silver lining.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#84

Post by rychco »

Most people have already mentioned that this change could result in discrimination, but I think it's also extremely important to note that these high school students are extremely overworked.

If a student is a top-tier applicant that has good grades, plays a sport, participates in a club or two, volunteers, & has a part-time job, they are easily working a minimum of 60+ hours per week. There is absolutely no way this can continue. I was pissed about this when I was in high school ~8 years ago, and it's only gotten worse since.

EDIT: Downvoted because I'm advocating for teens to not have to spend all of their waking hours preparing for college & instead get enough sleep or do something enjoyable?

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#85

Post by option »

currymj wrote: post #81
ericmay wrote: post #36

One question on my mind (as someone who has a master's degree and engineering degree and has never taken the ACT/SAT) is how kids will go about showing pure intellectual merit? Like let's say you grow up ok but you can't really afford to join the ski club or for a tutor and maybe you work in the evenings but you crush the SAT/ACT because you're incredibly intelligent. How will universities like MIT take that into acc…

it's hard to show intellectual merit using the SAT, because the test isn't hard enough so people just max out the score. the 25th percentile student at MIT got 790/800 for the math section. it definitely does make a difference for bright students who do unexpectedly well -- but it gets them into "merely" good schools not ultra-selective institutions like MIT.

sounds like the test is a good “necessary” (not sufficient) condition for admission

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#86

Post by sitkack »

rudderz wrote: post #58
porb121 wrote: post #13

> we do expect to return to requiring the SAT/ACT once it is possible for everyone to take them safely Fine with this being temporary. Much less fine with the schools who have completely abandoned the SAT/ACT in the name of equality while still considering things like personal essays and extracurriculars, which are way more liable to be gamed by the wealthy than the SAT.

I don't get why students need to be apply to be accepted. Why can't everyone go to MIT? Is there a scarcity on chalk boards, shitty chairs and cinder blocks?

How about kids test in? They can take classes online, if they perform well enough, they get to attend in person, everyone else can bang on the gates via a MOOC.

Why not take 1 or 2 university classes your junior and senior year of HS?

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#87

Post by ericd »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #78
ericd wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an oft-repeated meme, but I don't think it holds much water - the main value of SAT test prep is in taking a few practice tests, which you can do by yourself with a $20 book. You can't buy your way to a 2400, it takes being able to actually solve the problems. Otherwise, you'd see a lot more of them.

> You can't buy your way to a 2400 Well, no, since that would be 150% of the maximum score. You can buy your way to the maximum score, and people have been doing it, but test prep won't get you there. (As you note, prep is worth nearly nothing in terms of score gains.) You need advance access to the answers, or a substitute to take the test for you, or something along those lines.

Ha are they back to 1600? When did they get rid of writing?

Sure, yes, maybe bribery or fraud could get you there. Have there been reported cases?

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#88

Post by the_jeremy »

austincheney wrote: post #23

So many university recruiters at that level just suggest a minimum application criteria after which a lottery is applied to select acceptable applicants. A truly randomized lottery would ensure no bias in student selection. If you have, let’s say, 3000 open positions and 15,000 applications of which all are academically qualified does it really matter who they pick for admission? It’s not like there is going to be an…

If you're optimizing for having prestigious alumni, then it definitely does matter. I saw an article by a high school student who earned 35k on GitHub's bug bounty program. I was a valedictorian with a 4.0 GPA, and I will never do something like that.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#89

Post by bryanlarsen »

rudderz wrote: post #58
porb121 wrote: post #13

> we do expect to return to requiring the SAT/ACT once it is possible for everyone to take them safely Fine with this being temporary. Much less fine with the schools who have completely abandoned the SAT/ACT in the name of equality while still considering things like personal essays and extracurriculars, which are way more liable to be gamed by the wealthy than the SAT.

I don't get why students need to be apply to be accepted. Why can't everyone go to MIT? Is there a scarcity on chalk boards, shitty chairs and cinder blocks?

Given the massive endowments that MIT & the Ivy's are sitting on, it's borderline criminal that they're so selective IMO.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#90

Post by underpand »

pmiller2 wrote: post #31
porb121 wrote: post #13

> we do expect to return to requiring the SAT/ACT once it is possible for everyone to take them safely Fine with this being temporary. Much less fine with the schools who have completely abandoned the SAT/ACT in the name of equality while still considering things like personal essays and extracurriculars, which are way more liable to be gamed by the wealthy than the SAT.

You know test prep courses are a thing, and that the wealthy are the primary consumers of them, right? Pretty much everything in the USA is pay to win.

This was downvoted because it's a disingenuous reply. Obviously, OP was not arguing that SAT can't be gamed.
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