Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS • Hacker News Board

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#81

Post by fiddlerwoaroof » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #56

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

" Modern cars regularly send basic data about vehicle components, their safety status and service schedules to car manufacturers, and mobile phones work in very similar ways." -Google This is a beautiful quote because it is an example of one industry's bad behavior leading to another industry's bad behavior, upon which the first industry then users the second's similarity to justify themselves. Cars only started doin…

I honestly don't mind information about crashes being sent as long as it is very sanitized and easy to disable- similar to how Fedora reports issues. They send only a list of functions on the stack without any of the arguments or data. Example: https://retrace.fedoraproject.org/faf/problems/bthash/?bth=3... Where Google goes too far is sending everything in the name of security or better yet to "serve" the user.

IMEI and serial number make sense, I think too: Apple’s activation lock is a big reason why I bought an iPhone and as far as I can tell, it requires interaction with the server on every boot to work.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#82

Post by JKCalhoun » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

rdw wrote: post #34

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

" Modern cars regularly send basic data about vehicle components, their safety status and service schedules to car manufacturers, and mobile phones work in very similar ways." -Google This is a beautiful quote because it is an example of one industry's bad behavior leading to another industry's bad behavior, upon which the first industry then users the second's similarity to justify themselves. Cars only started doin…

The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. A sibling comment notes that Steam charged 30% at the time (though some had better deals) but it's worth noting that Steam was not an open platform that anyone could publish on. Much like for consoles, to put a game on Steam you had to have a preexisting relationship with Valve, or try to de…

It depends of course on how you published.

When I was authoring software (over two decades ago) and a company acted as publisher they took 85% of gross.

For author/publisher relationships at that time, this was pretty typical (book authors/publishers being the closest analog).

Needless to say there was, in addition to the cost of creating and shipping floppies, advertising that the publisher had to cover.

Apple's 30% cut seemed fair to me when the App Store arrived.

I'm not sure if I would try to ship an iOS app these days though. Not because of Apple's cut but because of the race to the bottom that was unleashed shortly after the App Store gold rush: where now you don't appear to even be able to sell a $0.99 app.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#83

Post by mankyd » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

onedognight wrote: post #9

mankyd wrote: post #3

Not mentioned in the headline: When the user is _not_ logged in, iOS collects "location" whereas Android does not. I am actually a little surprised that iOS would gather this information. What use would it serve?

Find My Phone? It is a choice to enroll in this, and it’s mighty convenient when you lose or get your phone stolen.

Presumably it could wait until someone actually asks for the phone's location in that case. No need to report the location if no one's asked for it.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#84

Post by swiley » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

papaf wrote: post #13

Smartphones are personal tracking devices that also allow you to browse the web and make phone calls.

I've always thought of them as "endpoints for deploying cooperate software into your life" but this is also a pretty good description.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#85

Post by fapjacks » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #51

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

" Modern cars regularly send basic data about vehicle components, their safety status and service schedules to car manufacturers, and mobile phones work in very similar ways." -Google This is a beautiful quote because it is an example of one industry's bad behavior leading to another industry's bad behavior, upon which the first industry then users the second's similarity to justify themselves. Cars only started doin…

>cars regularly send basic data My car doesn't and I absolutely would never buy one that does even if that meant walking/taking the bus.

Which makes it weird that we accept this bullshit from our phones, considering that you have your phone with you whether you're driving or walking or taking the bus.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#86

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

dltj wrote: post #55

In addition to size of the data transmission being a poor measure of privacy implications (XML versus JSON anyone?), this paragraph is nonsense: "The University of Dublin professor says that this expansive data collection raises at least two major concerns. First, that the telemetry can be used to link physical devices to personal details, data that both companies are most likely exploiting for advertising purposes."…

[deleted]

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#87

Post by livre » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

mankyd wrote: post #3

Not mentioned in the headline: When the user is _not_ logged in, iOS collects "location" whereas Android does not. I am actually a little surprised that iOS would gather this information. What use would it serve?

> When the user is _not_ logged in

Does this matter? How many people do you know that aren't logged in on their phones? It is literally one the first things Android asks you to do even before showing you the main screen.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#88

Post by swiley » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

fapjacks wrote: post #85

swiley wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cars regularly send basic data My car doesn't and I absolutely would never buy one that does even if that meant walking/taking the bus.

Which makes it weird that we accept this bullshit from our phones, considering that you have your phone with you whether you're driving or walking or taking the bus.

I think it's because you have to pay money to access the cell network; You need an identety to clear billing with. Until we have enough spectrum for WiFi to have longer ranges you will never be able to use a portable device with internet access like cell phones have without being tracked. The extra data exfiltrated from our devices is often only a little more precise than what the carriers in many places are already selling.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#89

Post by marshmallow_12 » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

beforeolives wrote: post #54

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

" Modern cars regularly send basic data about vehicle components, their safety status and service schedules to car manufacturers, and mobile phones work in very similar ways." -Google This is a beautiful quote because it is an example of one industry's bad behavior leading to another industry's bad behavior, upon which the first industry then users the second's similarity to justify themselves. Cars only started doin…

The more concerning thing about the car data is that the manafacturers resell it to third parties and those third parties have the right to resell it again. It's a mess. As a comparison, I don't know if much of Google's data ever leaves Google.

i'm getting the impression that iot providers have far, far lower privacy standards vs dedicated tech providers. This to me indicates that they don't take the internet capability of their kettles/cars seriously enough. It's just a gimmick. This is not a constructive way to advance iot.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#90

Post by tchalla » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #75

tchalla wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's similar to when Apple defended it's 30% store cut by claiming it's an "industry standard"... specifically, an industry standard that Apple established. Apple established a standard for the Apple app store. There was a lot of complaint about "Apple Tax" and Apple merely pointed out that it wasn't a "Apple Tax". Sure, Apple started it but others which are not even connected to the Apple ecosystem simply followed…

this is a classic example of how companies collude without direct communication. it's a type of game theoretic outcome that's actually taught in business school - how to read your competitor's intentions from public information (like pricing intentions) and legally act and counter-communicate publicly your own intentions to not compete (in many cases by not lowering price). this can practically only happen in oligarc…

> this is a classic example of how companies collude without direct communication.

In that case, let's have that conversation as a society and as a government. "Are companies listed in Table 1 and 2 in collusion as defined by current law?".

In most of the Apple 30% conversations, the conversations seem to be about an instance (Apple) instead of an object (Digital Store Tax, Collusion etc). Lets set the frame and be clear about the conversation we want to have regardless of the business we talk. We can use Apple, Microsoft et al as examples to make the point. We shouldn't replace them with the overarching discussion.