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Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

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Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#81

Post by currymj »

Fanny Holmes (wife of Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.) once said, when asked why she belonged to the Unitarian Church,

"In Boston one has to be something, and Unitarian is the least you can be."

Unitarianism by the 20th century didn't have any dogma, even atheists and agnostics could be members, and accepted that all religious traditions had spiritual wisdom to offer. But because it had evolved from Christianity it had institutional legitimacy, in a world where church membership was a social requirement.

People's beliefs might have changed less than we think over time, despite the common perception that nearly everyone in the US was hyper-religious until the last few decades.

There might be other factors around the decline in church membership -- perhaps related to the decline in participation in secular community groups as well.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#82

Post by criddell »

simiones wrote: post #47
xyzelement wrote: post #14

There's a great discourse in one of Dan Brown's books about whether people leave religion because they have found better answers elsewhere, or because they have stopped asking the questions. Separately, I observed that that the areligious are much more likely to have few or no kids while the religious folks put a much greater emphasis on it. As the secular world moves towards a place where there's no pressure to marr…

"religiousness" is not likely to be an inheritable genetic trait, so the children of a religious person may or may not be religious themselves, and vice-versa. The overall culture is likely to have a more powerful impact on this than solely parenting.

You don't think that the children of religious parents are more likely to be religious than children of atheists?

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#83

Post by throwaway0a5e »

visarga wrote: post #57
symfoniq wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world will be better off when we abolish freedom of belief? That doesn't sound like a world I'd want to live in.

There's a long way from freedom of belief to the kind of identity politics practiced by religious groups. Ironically religious people are under the risk of getting cancelled by their own group if they dare wrongthink, so they are less free.

>There's a long way from freedom of belief to the kind of identity politics practiced by religious groups. Ironically religious people are under the risk of getting cancelled by their own group if they dare wrongthink, so they are less free.

Are we discussing organized religions or political parties? Your comment could apply to either.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#84

Post by msla »

987yghj wrote: post #17
datavirtue wrote: post #5

The spread of information has allowed people to form their own moralistic code and spiritual journey that doesn't rely on having an institutional infrastructure. They are choosing religions that reject elite priesthoods, a trend now going back for thousands of years starting with Zarathustra. I consider this progress.

They have chosen new religions and a new elite priesthood, they just have different names.

The sad thing is how many people think deepity nonsense like what you sarcastically posted here is worth consideration, as opposed to being not-even-wrong level laughably bad philosophy.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#85

Post by analyte123 »

WJW wrote: post #45
xyzelement wrote: post #14

There's a great discourse in one of Dan Brown's books about whether people leave religion because they have found better answers elsewhere, or because they have stopped asking the questions. Separately, I observed that that the areligious are much more likely to have few or no kids while the religious folks put a much greater emphasis on it. As the secular world moves towards a place where there's no pressure to marr…

There was a religious leader making a similar argument some time back, but I don't think it holds together all that well. After all, back in the middle ages the amount of churchgoing people was near 100% and religions were promoting big families then just as much as now. So if religious parents "out-produce" their non-religious counterparts how did we ever get to the current situation where a majority is not religiou…

It could be because contraception didn’t exist in the Middle Ages.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#86

Post by ISL »

WJW wrote: post #51
liaukovv wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you said yourself, people do it to belong to a social circle. What are you replacing this extremely important function with? Vacuum?

Sports, online forums, student fraternities, social clubs of every variety, etc. There are many ways to get active in society that don't involve beliefs in higher beings.

Those activities don't help much when you encounter the really big challenges in life.

Spirituality offers frameworks for dealing with, and often embracing, many of the questions for which there may never be a satisfactory answer.

Whether you believe the postulates of a religion or not, there a ton of higher-level lessons to be learned from those who do.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#87

Post by ubermonkey »

whalesalad wrote: post #28

I had a unique experience growing up in a religious family (that is very tolerant and respectful of all world religions) while simultaneously being immersed in Scientology via a private school experience. The thing that underscores all of my experiences has been hypocrisy. So many people just want to belong to a group, or were raised in it and know nothing better. They don’t practice what they preach. I can’t help bu…

You went to Delphian?

I had a coworker who went there. He had, uh, stories.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#88

Post by Renaud »

gabythenerd wrote: post #4

I am impressed that numbers are that high, looking from the outside the US doesn't look particularly religious. It might be lower still, I don't think young people answer cellphone surveys all that much.

>looking from the outside the US doesn't look particularly religious.

I am genuinely wondering how you can get to this feeling about the US where religion permeates a lot of the social and political spheres.

For a Western country, I am actually quite amazed at the prominence of religion in the US, and by religion, I mean Christianity and its various incarnations. Looking at it from the outside it's actually really weird.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#89

Post by whiddershins »

In my opinion the main problem for religion right now is the failure to explain their arguments at the highest intellectual level, publicly, consistently.

Once I was exposed to better theology and philosophy of Christianity I was blown away. Edward Feser’s ‘The Last Superstition’ helped open this up.

I have no idea why the level of discourse is on average so primitive, I think church leaders have been systematically underestimating the populace.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#90

Post by yostrovs »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #41
hprotagonist wrote: post #13

first time in 80 years, anyway. for rather more of the 19th century than we think, regular church attendance was more like 35% of the country.

membership != attendance. There's a joke somewhere about people who only attend church for their baptism and their funeral.

Imagine ordering from Amazon, but not being a Prime member. That should help put things in a more materialistic perspective.
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