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An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

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Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#81

Post by DanBC »

smsm42 wrote: post #68
phasnox wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the kill…

> Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. I've been in OSS for decades. I've actually argued with RMS personally on certain subject (he called me evil, which I disagree with, but that's not the point). I've read a lot of his writings and a lot of writings about him. I never heard about this until today. I have no idea what RMS actually said on the subject (you didn't provide a quote, as it u…

This is a lot of words to defend someone when you -as you say - don't know what he said nor what he meant.

The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#82

Post by yongjik »

smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1173981287037751297...

> I hosted rms many years ago in the 90’s, what was supposed to be hosting your hero for a ~3 day thing became a ~2 month nightmare. I joined a small club “never host rms ever again”. To cope with it, I used to collect the horror stories.

> He met a woman on the first evening in town, and extended his stay. One day, I came home from work and she had moved in.

I don't personally know any autistic person, but this doesn't sound like autism. How many autistic person visits a new town, goes into a bar, and brings back a woman to your friend's bedroom, without asking the friend first? This sounds more like a run-of-the-mill asshole.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#83

Post by smsm42 »

DanBC wrote: post #81
smsm42 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. I've been in OSS for decades. I've actually argued with RMS personally on certain subject (he called me evil, which I disagree with, but that's not the point). I've read a lot of his writings and a lot of writings about him. I never heard about this until today. I have no idea what RMS actually said on the subject (you didn't provide a quote, as it u…

This is a lot of words to defend someone when you -as you say - don't know what he said nor what he meant. The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot.

> This is a lot of words

That's your response? "too long, didn't read"? Well, good job, I guess, here's your participation trophy.

> The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot.

No, it actually says nothing at all. That's the whole point, which you may have understood if you bothered to actually read. RMS's views on random subjects is just idle thoughts of a random dude, and nobody in any community owes anybody any care about what random dude once said about random subjects. If RMS were nominated for the Secretary of Health, then his views on reproductive decisions may be slightly more relevant. Call me back when that happens.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#84

Post by enriquto »

happytoexplain wrote: post #76
enriquto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will not last! The day of the judgement, those of us who voted for your comment will be disclosed, and we will be duly punished for our wrongthink.

It's rare that a comment floats on the line so perfectly - I don't even have a suspicion about whether you are mocking the parent for being dramatic/self-pitying, or if you are being sarcastic in a critique of those who are being accused of censorship.

So I succeeded in my purpose to mock everybody? But really, I think that we are not far from the "grand upvote disclosure" day where by some strange leak all upvotes in the internet will become public. Then people will start to be fired for having upvoted the wrong comment 20 years ago. This will be recursive, of course: if you ever upvoted a comment written by a wrong person, you become a wrong person as well. And so on. So, please be careful with the upvotes to controversial comments here.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#85

Post by smsm42 »

smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

I think getting physiology in this is just wrong. I don't know whether RMS is on the spectrum, and whether he would have been diagnosed as one if he passed some tests. I think it's beyond the point - even non-autistic people can make bad judgements, make mistakes, behave awkwardly, be stubborn and behave in socially awkward manner. Making it like "if we find a bad statement in your past, we're going to ruin your life, but if you have this magic paper then it's ok" - is not how you solve a problem or people's lives being ruined. RMS's voice is important not because he may or may not have certain condition, but because of what he's been saying and doing for years. It's not about autism, especially not about making it yet another "protected identity" checkbox.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#86

Post by PurpleFoxy »

phasnox wrote: post #4
mikece wrote: post #2

I fully support RMS being on the FSF board for life. (I also think he would be fantastic making a cameo in a bit part in Disney's Mandalorian series, bitching about "damned proprietary code" used in imperial droids that makes them hard to reprogram but that's another topic for another message board...)

I find it hard to support a guy that says stuff like this: "There is a perverse movement among women to think that they should carry fetuses with Downs' syndrome to term, rather than abort them and try again. ... Next, people will take thalidomide to demonstrate how they can love babies born without limbs." - RMS

He is saying what most people are thinking. How many people really do want to have a child with Down syndrome if it can be avoided?

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#88

Post by kemonocode »

What really gets my goat about the RMS situation is that he's not neuronormative, the same people lambasting him are the same people who would deride judgement calls that harsh against someone who's on the spectrum, yet somehow he's an acceptable target.

Yes, he's awkward as all hell, and yes, he makes people uncomfortable sometimes and has no social filter, but his contributions are too many to be ignored and his behavior to me seems to be without malice.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#89

Post by kemonocode »

phasnox wrote: post #58
smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the kill…

> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome.

Would you mind providing a citation on this? Because I have yet to really read about it anywhere else.

EDIT: Ah, so it was a rather uncharitable interpretation on his views on abortion [0]. Again, a symptom of someone with zero social awareness and I'm sure it'd be thought to be beyond the pale for some people, but far from a genocidal maniac.

[0] https://stallman.org/archives/2016-sep-dec.html#31_October_2...

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#90

Post by icha »

jellicle wrote: post #39

I do love to see people come out with a public statement that says "We believe that a guy who, in public meetings, representing his organization, picks toe cheese from between his toes and consumes it in front of people, is absolutely the right leader for us! We believe that a guy who showers once or twice per year is the best public face for us. Out of all the billions of people on Earth, he's the one!" Takes guts t…

That's it? Bad hygiene and awkward attempts at romancing women? Truly, a devil incarnate.
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