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Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

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Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#81
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those events happen, do you think the infra (electricity generation and telecom interconnection) that it relies upon will still be around?

Yes. I'm talking about financial collapse, not destruction of infra.

Without details, the impact of a financial collapse is unknown. Given how BTC moves in connection with the broader market now, one would expect that the value would crash with the system, especially since BTC has no intrinsic value.

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#83

There are so many frustrated nocoiners here on HN, it’s crazy. It’s interesting that on a tech site people can be more negative towards new technology, than on youtube for example, where I don’t see so much hate....I just don’t understand why.

I think the answer is because it IS a tech site. Members here understand that Bitcoin is a vastly inefficient and ineffective way to achieve the end goal. My view is definitely that Bitcoin solves a problem I don't have, in just about the worst way possible (proof of work).

This place was flooded with extremely biased nocoiners long before energy consumption was a hot topic.

I truly believe it’s simply that they want it to fail since they missed the boat, and their ego is on the line as a forward thinking, “ahead of the curve” technologist.

It can’t be the biggest development of the last decade, what would that say about them? Therefore, inefficient ponzi that’s only used for drugs!

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#84
post #2

Proof of work blockchains should be banned by various governments for this reason alone. At this point BTC is a speculative bubble that benefits a very small group to the detriment of the rest of us. I also have a lot of personal frustration with how mining (more of ETH and others) is impacting the global GPU supply. A whole cottage industry has cropped up of sites, discords, etc that provide notifications when GPUs…

> Proof of work blockchains should be banned by various governments for this reason alone. How does one ban a blockchain? Serious question. Would you only arrest the miners or would you also arrest non-mining full node operators? How could you tell if regular citizens were transacting with POW coins? Would you subpoena telecom companies for records where customers have visited known sites which transact in POW coins?…

As always, you regulate at the edge: You control that banks do not accept Bitcoin-related money. You regulate exchanges to delist Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#85
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proof of work blockchains should be banned by various governments for this reason alone. How does one ban a blockchain? Serious question. Would you only arrest the miners or would you also arrest non-mining full node operators? How could you tell if regular citizens were transacting with POW coins? Would you subpoena telecom companies for records where customers have visited known sites which transact in POW coins?…

You regulate exchanges like Coinbase and Gemini, so there are no legitimate ways to trade your proof of work cryptocurrency for USD (or your local gov backed currency). Then the demand for the crypto currency plummets. In 2010-2011, I traded BTC for USD in person, with a laptop on wifi. And via PayPal with someone I met on IRC, where there was a bot that kept track of your reputation so the BTC sellers would know if…

On the other hand:

* cocaine prices aren't $1/kg, even after governments around the world banned it

* exotic/endangered species are still being traded for top dollars, despite anti-poaching and anti-trafficking regulations

* stolen art is still worth millions

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#86

There are so many frustrated nocoiners here on HN, it’s crazy. It’s interesting that on a tech site people can be more negative towards new technology, than on youtube for example, where I don’t see so much hate....I just don’t understand why.

It's the ideology behind bitcoin, some people sympathise with it and some people don't. And the monumental waste of energy is a real issue too. This something even the inventors of bitcoin themselves have admitted.

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#87

There are so many frustrated nocoiners here on HN, it’s crazy. It’s interesting that on a tech site people can be more negative towards new technology, than on youtube for example, where I don’t see so much hate....I just don’t understand why.

The main issue of this article is electricity. Another point can be made about the origin of hash rates generated during BTC mining operations. In Q2 2020 China (65,08%), Russia (6,90%), Kazakhstan (6,17%) and Iran (3,82%) comprise ~82% of average monthly hashrate.[1] "Decentralized" :)

[1]https://cbeci.org/mining_map

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#88
post #9
post #2

Proof of work blockchains should be banned by various governments for this reason alone. At this point BTC is a speculative bubble that benefits a very small group to the detriment of the rest of us. I also have a lot of personal frustration with how mining (more of ETH and others) is impacting the global GPU supply. A whole cottage industry has cropped up of sites, discords, etc that provide notifications when GPUs…

I can list so many dumb uses of energy out of my head that could be beneficial if banned...

So... What-about-ism?

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#89
post #2

Proof of work blockchains should be banned by various governments for this reason alone. At this point BTC is a speculative bubble that benefits a very small group to the detriment of the rest of us. I also have a lot of personal frustration with how mining (more of ETH and others) is impacting the global GPU supply. A whole cottage industry has cropped up of sites, discords, etc that provide notifications when GPUs…

Or, dirty energy should be banned.

Yes, and that doesn't really address the issue of proof of work blockchains wasting energy. With BTC specifically, the incentives are there to waste as much energy as possible as the difficulty and price goes up. Yes, you try to do more work with a unit of electricity, but the net incentive is to add more and more.

Then what? Do you end up with this problem? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26226470

Re: Bitcoin may consume as much energy as all data centers globally

#90

The problem with bitcoin isn't merely that it uses a ton of energy, it's that the amount of energy consumed has practically zero relationship to the utility provided by the network. Yes, Visa uses a lot of energy, it's also a global payment platform servicing hundreds of millions of transactions per day, the amount of energy used correlates with the amount of useful work provided by the network, this is not true of P…

>bitcoin power consumption actually increases because an increase in efficiency means more money if similar rates of power are consumed, except this also has the side effect of increasing mining difficulty, thus making the entire network more energy hungry overall

well not really, the amount of bitcoin to be mined is fixed (and actually drops in the long term), so the amount of money that is up for grabs should stay the same unless the price changes. Therefore it's more reasonable to say that the increase is power consumption is fueled by the increase in price, not because of increase in efficiency.

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