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Children Playing Blockchain

jott.live

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Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#81

Post by Rule35 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #65
hmrtn wrote: post #48

Unfortunately this article provides almost no substance on blockchain or it's related technology. HN does not seem to mind as long as it is even remotely critical of anything crypto-related. It would be nice to discuss the actual implications of the technology, critical or not, without such strong opinions interfering.

Agreed. I think HN's general sentiment against blockchain and crypto is completely counter to the hacker mentality that PG promoted. And it's frustrating, because this is one of the most intellectually stimulating communities on the web. And I see crypto developments rapidly becoming the most disruptive technology of this decade, if not century and we can't discuss it without bikeshedding. Seems to me like there migh…

I'm mostly pro-blockchain but I understand the HN stance because every crappy idea has its pumpers who will defy logic and reason and they infest everywhere that doesn't delete them. It's asymmetrical, they make millions by pumping crap and you lose by either reading it or having to take the time to delete it.

Until the legit blockchain space can call out scams (from Iota to Tether) the entire thing is rightly tainted.

That said, you can generally get a good discussion of a type of tech (ie, NFTs for concert tickets) if you avoid the branded implementations (that are always trying to sell some crappy token for use with the idea.)

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#82

Post by gus_massa »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #59
gus_massa wrote: post #55

In the proof of stake class, the people that get rich in dollars are the old timers that collected a lot of bricks during the first year, and now can sell the bricks to the newbies that want to enter the game. (And the teacher, that also saved like the 5% of the initial bricks for ... pedagogical purposes.) In the proof of work class, the people that get rich in dollars are owner of the owner of the stationary that c…

Except transitioning back to the real world proof of work situation, it’s dominated by players who make their own ASICs and have access to the most heavily subsidized electricity. Newbies can’t even break even anymore.

Don't confuse newbies with amateurs. It's like any normal industry.

Anyone can build a car factory, you don't have to go to Ford and buy a lot of toy cars that they made a long time ago. You just have to hire the right people and build it.

Anyone can build a space rocket factory, you don't have to go to NASA and buy a lot of Moon rocks they collected a long time ago. You just have to hire the right people and build it.

You have to be Elon-Musk-rich to do any of them anyway.

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#83

Post by Jasper_ »

capnorange wrote: post #68
Jasper_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top Bitcoin mining pools in China create their own mining ASICs in house for competitive advantage. You just can't compete without spending years catching up to their hardware designs.

As long as selling ASIC's are profitable -> more R&D and eventually everyone has access to the most capable ASIC's. Off the top of my head, data from 2 years back(things might have changed now). Bitmain, one of the top 3 mining pools, 90% of their revenue was from ASIC sales rather than mining. As long as Bitmain has competitors, they should always be able to put out the best ASIC's to the public.

Haha, you missed the scam.

They don't sell their latest mining equipment. Why would they? They sell the mining equipment after they have no use for it and it's costing them money to keep it running.

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#84

Post by rorykoehler »

Rule35 wrote: post #81
chrisco255 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I think HN's general sentiment against blockchain and crypto is completely counter to the hacker mentality that PG promoted. And it's frustrating, because this is one of the most intellectually stimulating communities on the web. And I see crypto developments rapidly becoming the most disruptive technology of this decade, if not century and we can't discuss it without bikeshedding. Seems to me like there migh…

I'm mostly pro-blockchain but I understand the HN stance because every crappy idea has its pumpers who will defy logic and reason and they infest everywhere that doesn't delete them. It's asymmetrical, they make millions by pumping crap and you lose by either reading it or having to take the time to delete it. Until the legit blockchain space can call out scams (from Iota to Tether) the entire thing is rightly tainte…

Why is Iota a scam?

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#85

Post by rorykoehler »

chrisco255 wrote: post #65
hmrtn wrote: post #48

Unfortunately this article provides almost no substance on blockchain or it's related technology. HN does not seem to mind as long as it is even remotely critical of anything crypto-related. It would be nice to discuss the actual implications of the technology, critical or not, without such strong opinions interfering.

Agreed. I think HN's general sentiment against blockchain and crypto is completely counter to the hacker mentality that PG promoted. And it's frustrating, because this is one of the most intellectually stimulating communities on the web. And I see crypto developments rapidly becoming the most disruptive technology of this decade, if not century and we can't discuss it without bikeshedding. Seems to me like there migh…

There are 2 types of blockchain enthusiasts. One are in it to get rich quick and blockchain is only their current vehicle for that endeavour. The other are actually into from a tech and society perspective. The prior group ruin it for the latter.

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#86

Post by TeMPOraL »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #23
jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #18

A third class plays using a consensus model based on explicit relationships of trust. Each student keeps track of which of the others they consider trustworthy. Since they all play together everyday, they know who is nice, and who is naughty. When a supermajority trusts the student placing a new block, that student is allowed to place it anywhere. When not enough people trust the student placing the block, they preve…

Which cryptocurrency does this describe?

Good ol' fiat money, of course. The economic system we have, which enjoys tremendous performance benefits of using interpersonal trust as a heuristic.

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#87

Post by wmf »

rorykoehler wrote: post #84
Rule35 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly pro-blockchain but I understand the HN stance because every crappy idea has its pumpers who will defy logic and reason and they infest everywhere that doesn't delete them. It's asymmetrical, they make millions by pumping crap and you lose by either reading it or having to take the time to delete it. Until the legit blockchain space can call out scams (from Iota to Tether) the entire thing is rightly tainte…

Why is Iota a scam?

The technology (ternary) is crackpot and it's centralized. Their plan to decentralize is both technically flawed and unrealistic because they aren't competent enough to execute it.

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#88

Post by atweiden »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #50
freeone3000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That simply makes two currencies - before-fork, and after-fork. There's no rule that the one that "should" win does, especially in the face of large computing power making the former more attractive. See Bitcoin Cash, versus Bitcoin Classic.

That's just not an accurate nor truthful account of what happens in practice. The example you gave has nothing to do with changing the PoW function to counteract ASICs. Both Bcash and bitcoin classic were forked because of completely different reasons, and had people who believed in those reasons defend the new forks and run the node software etc. For example XMR has been doing ASIC-deterrent forks for years now with…

In 2018, 50-60% of Monero hashrate was rumored to be from secret ASICs. How “successful” at warding off ASICs could hard forking a coin’s hashing algorithm really be if it doesn’t stop the ASIC manufacturers from building ASICs for any given algorithm?

Also it seems clear that Monero’s purported “ASIC resistance” is very much a social contract — requiring constant vigilance to uphold — one which isn’t guaranteed to be strictly adhered to over the long run, particularly as the cost/benefit analysis gets murkier.

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#89

Post by wmf »

gus_massa wrote: post #82
johncolanduoni wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except transitioning back to the real world proof of work situation, it’s dominated by players who make their own ASICs and have access to the most heavily subsidized electricity. Newbies can’t even break even anymore.

Don't confuse newbies with amateurs. It's like any normal industry. Anyone can build a car factory, you don't have to go to Ford and buy a lot of toy cars that they made a long time ago. You just have to hire the right people and build it. Anyone can build a space rocket factory, you don't have to go to NASA and buy a lot of Moon rocks they collected a long time ago. You just have to hire the right people and build i…

It has been alleged that anyone cannot build crypto ASICs due to sabotage. https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538...

Re: Children Playing Blockchain

#90

Post by wmf »

mcbuilder wrote: post #67

I'm new to the concept of PoS. Would the underlying mechanism of Burstcoin be proof of stake, i.e. large amounts of HDD space instead of computing the solution hash problems? Or is Burstcoin still proof of work? I'm just curious because the proof of space model seems much more environmentally friendly instead of solving random problems with massive amounts of computation.

Proof of storage space is not PoS since it still requires external resources.
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