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100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

arstechnica.com

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Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#81

Post by lazerpants »

lagerstedt wrote: post #23
totalZero wrote: post #15

Imagine how good our network technology policy would be if the Senate weren't run by septagenarians and octogenarian. I fear that data caps for home internet will become standard. There is no technological reason for these caps. For wireless, they could be defended by arguing that companies only get to use so much spectrum because of FCC laws. But the only limit for home internet is the ISP's willingness to deploy eq…

Flatrate models usually means that a large majority of users actually covers the costs for a the minority high consumers. It is true that the marginal cost for more transmitted data is almost zero, but the overhead costs of running (and expanding) networks are certainly not. Cost has to be covered and you could very well argue that it makes sense that the large consumers pay more.

I checked Comcast's 10k report and their margin for the segment including broadband is over 40%, which is crazy but about what you would expect from a de facto monopoly. I don't think forcing them to invest in capex to benefit customers is asking so much when they are making those kinds of margins.

Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#82

Post by Dylan16807 »

kryogen1c wrote: post #38

Lets try and suss out some of the multiple issues with US internet: -regulating ISPs as a free market is, to be hyperbolic, a disaster. there is effectively a monopoly in most parts of the country. -25/3 Mbps is a very reasonable speed for most people. the issue is that its provided on a best effort basis that is never maintained for long, if at all. netflix says thats enough to stream UHD[0] -FTA: "Those data points…

> -25/3 Mbps is a very reasonable speed for most people. the issue is that its provided on a best effort basis that is never maintained for long, if at all. netflix says thats enough to stream UHD[0]

Even ignoring the "more than one person" issue, 3Mbps makes it very difficult to do things like file transfers and backups and accessing home data from elsewhere.

25/10 per person is a much better minimum bar than 25/3

> all in all, this reeks of regulatory capture to me.

Why? How does this favor entrenched players over newcomers?

The companies I see being disadvantaged by this are incumbent cable companies that need to update equipment to let more frequencies be shifted from download to upload. But that's not regulatory capture by ISPs and should have good effects. And this doesn't seem like some kind of incumbent ISP vs. incumbent ISP regulatory capture either.

Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#83

Post by totalZero »

kryogen1c wrote: post #38

Lets try and suss out some of the multiple issues with US internet: -regulating ISPs as a free market is, to be hyperbolic, a disaster. there is effectively a monopoly in most parts of the country. -25/3 Mbps is a very reasonable speed for most people. the issue is that its provided on a best effort basis that is never maintained for long, if at all. netflix says thats enough to stream UHD[0] -FTA: "Those data points…

> 25/3 Mbps is a very reasonable speed for most people. the issue is that its provided on a best effort basis that is never maintained for long, if at all. netflix says thats enough to stream UHD[0]

Please expand upon your point. Why exactly is 25/3 reasonable for most people? I'm not necessarily disagreeing; indeed, this would be a god-level speed compared to what's currently standard for most of Latin America. However, your point about Netflix is irrelevant because not every use case can be buffered. Also, many use cases in our new work-from-home reality require better up speed than 3Mbps with bad ping and high jitter.

Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#84

Post by shmerl »

totalZero wrote: post #15

Imagine how good our network technology policy would be if the Senate weren't run by septagenarians and octogenarian. I fear that data caps for home internet will become standard. There is no technological reason for these caps. For wireless, they could be defended by arguing that companies only get to use so much spectrum because of FCC laws. But the only limit for home internet is the ISP's willingness to deploy eq…

Data caps should be simply illegal on anti-trust grounds for incumbent ISPs most which also own video / TV businesses. You don't even need to invent any new laws for that, just make competition law actually functional and not toothless.

Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#86

Post by devwastaken »

One great thing about higher upload is the ability to host your own content, be a tor node, release decentralized software platforms that can actually work.

Imagine if people could just buy a premade raspi that hosted their social media page, ddns, etc.

Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#87

Post by CKN23-ARIN »

CodeBeater wrote: post #75
CKN23-ARIN wrote: post #44

The letter specifically calls for symmetrical speeds of at least 100Mbps. Let's hope that this is the death of PON-based FTTH.

I'm not trying to be aggressive here (specially since I'm WAY out of my lane when it comes to networking), but what's wrong with PON?

It's asymmetric, providing far less upload capacity than download.

Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#88

Post by plantain »

totalZero wrote: post #78
Panino wrote: post #3

> The funding is going to a mix of cable, fiber, and fixed wireless providers, plus SpaceX's Starlink satellite network. I think cable providers should be left out. They were already gifted many billions of dollars in the past for this same basic purpose but they pocketed the money. They can just use the free money they've already been given. Instead, the funding should go to existing munipical fiber ISPs to expand t…

If the issue is link speed symmetry, then cable should be out of the running entirely. Even my phone offers better upload speed than cable in my neighborhood. Same for my parents' place across the country. New money should go to fiber, satellite, wireless, or nothing at all.

DOCSIS 3 (from 2006) can do 100/100 over cable - it's the decision of the provider not the technology.

Re: 100Mbps uploads and downloads should be US broadband standard, senators say

#90

Post by CKN23-ARIN »

plantain wrote: post #88
totalZero wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the issue is link speed symmetry, then cable should be out of the running entirely. Even my phone offers better upload speed than cable in my neighborhood. Same for my parents' place across the country. New money should go to fiber, satellite, wireless, or nothing at all.

DOCSIS 3 (from 2006) can do 100/100 over cable - it's the decision of the provider not the technology.

It's at least somewhat inherent to the technology. DOCSIS download channels are shared among subscribers; upload channels are allocated exclusively per-subscriber. This architecture provides economic incentives for the provider to provision asymmetric circuits rather than symmetric ones.
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