I feel like there's basically two business models in the world - you can be a baker, in which you try to create a product that customers will want on its merits, and work to make the best possible customer experience, or you can be a crack dealer. I think a lot of people think they're bakers, but you gotta realize, the moment you start sprinkling crack in the cookies, you're not selling cookies anymore.
“User engagement” is code for “addiction”
81–90 of 276 posts
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#82Posts like this completely misunderstand how companies like Facebook think and operate. As a result, they cause people to fight boogymen instead of working toward positive change. Yes, using Facebook instead of doing something like talking in person or reading a book is probably worse for you in the long run. But most people don't do those things instead of Facebook. Instead they use Tiktok. Or watch TV. Or read Teen…
Given that the only thing like evidence available to the public regarding how Facebook thinks and operates is the outcomes, and any insider knowledge is, by nature, rife with conflict of interest, I don’t think you could expect anyone to assume benevolent intentions.
Not to mention I don’t know what would be effective work toward positive change from an outsider when the decisions made for and by the company are (completely reasonably) made internal to the company.
I kind of agree that the Facebook boogeyman stuff is played out, but it’s not like there’s much of an alternative to discuss.
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#83This kind of semantic game has to stop. If you water down the meaning of "addiction" enough then you can say that anything is "addictive" and with that, you can carry over all the connotations of the word. Then people start saying "I'm addicted to coffee" and "I'm addicted to bread" and before you know it people saying "I'm addicted to heroin" are met with "well, why don't you just stop, like I did with coffee for a…
Addiction has levels to it, and any one addiction isn't going to be identical to others. Caffeine addiction is a very real thing, as is heroin addiction. Just because the latter can be much stronger and more harmful doesn't mean the former can't exist.
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#84Let's talk about taxing the 'user engagement' companies similar to what is done with cigarettes and alcohol.
Mess with their money.
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#85Posts like this completely misunderstand how companies like Facebook think and operate. As a result, they cause people to fight boogymen instead of working toward positive change. Yes, using Facebook instead of doing something like talking in person or reading a book is probably worse for you in the long run. But most people don't do those things instead of Facebook. Instead they use Tiktok. Or watch TV. Or read Teen…
Facebook employees want you to be a happy, healthy Facebook Family of Apps™ user. But Facebook as an emergent entity of its own has "wants" which can be hard to see from the inside. Facebook employees don't actually know what happens between each individual user and their Facebook account. You can do user studies, or gather aggregate metrics, but any technique you might use will obscure what's really happening in one way or another. And the whole internal idea of what is happening will naturally be bent toward what helps Facebook survive. In particular, it's very important that what Facebook employees are encouraged to imagine as positive change is not damaging to Facebook itself, or the company will eventually die.
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I know the common refrain is "Delete Facebook!" but that's the equivalent of abstinence-only education. We need to start talking about how to configure Screen Time on iOS, or how to use Facebook's built-in tools to hide content you don't want to see. I see it more akin to the opioid crisis. Just like drug manufactures shouldn't be pushing opioids as a way to deal with minor pain and depression because they know it…
> Normal people are seriously outgunned here. This is quite right. PragmaticPulp's phrase "an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals" is a bit of rhetorical jujitsu, creating a strawman to set up a rallying cry "I believe people have agency!" You don't have to assume that individuals are "helpless", as if they are generally helpless and lacking agency, to agree that these corporations are exp…
Indeed, that's precisely what makes these techniques so powerful. For many people, even self-knowledge isn't a reliable defense.
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not so sure about that. What value does Facebook offer that isn't done better by a dozen other platforms? Most people I talk to openly admit it provides them with no value, but they still idly scroll through their feeds day after day and can never bring themselves to ditch the platform. Simply put, they're addicted. Facebook is widely hated yet wildly successful because they have mastered psychological manipulati…
Speaking for myself as a light FB user in the US, I get a ton of value from seeing my relatives' updates. Otherwise, I would have no connection with the next generation of babies in my family. I generally find this line of thinking problematic: conversations with a homogenous and small group -> generalization based on an interpretation of their interpretation of their experience. Also objectionable but on the other s…
I was providing a quick and simple example, not making a generalization about all Facebook users. Just as my anecdotal evidence does not necessarily demonstrate an addiction problem across all Facebook users, your anecdotal evidence does not demonstrate a lack thereof.
The point is that there are users whose use of a service is driven by psychological manipulation, not by a value proposition. The relationship between many people I know and Facebook is merely an example.
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#88Now, amp that all up with even more colorful light shows and sound effects, and you have loot boxes. Also, amusingly enough, referred to as "user engagement" by game studio heads (also known as "recurring revenue", as if it's a reasonable subscription and not a fucking slot machine).
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#89I don't like the current trend of social media apps burying users under push notifications, calls to action, and other engagement hooks. However, there's a second, parallel problem adding fuel to the fire: The more we talk about overindulgence in social media (or Netflix, or video games, or fast food) as an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals, the less sense of individual agency we give ou…
>We need to start talking about how to configure Screen Time on iOS, or how to use Facebook's built-in tools to hide content you don't want to see.
We are so outgunned it's almost ridiculous to try. The game is rigged.
Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”
#90I feel like there's basically two business models in the world - you can be a baker, in which you try to create a product that customers will want on its merits, and work to make the best possible customer experience, or you can be a crack dealer. I think a lot of people think they're bakers, but you gotta realize, the moment you start sprinkling crack in the cookies, you're not selling cookies anymore.
Two business models in tech: selling a product vs. selling ads. The latter is really selling your users.