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Flutter 2

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Re: Flutter 2

#81

Post by davidkhess »

Keyframe wrote: post #55

I haven't really looked, apart from glancing, into flutter yet. Now with desktops and mobile, premise seems interesting. How and does it compare to Qt?

My perspective is that Flutter is positioned dead on against Qt's QML. I develop mobile and desktop QML applications and this seems to be trying to be very competitive with it.

Qt also has a WebAssembly build for QML apps on the web but in my experience it has suffered from some of the same issues reported here about the Flutter WebAssembly runtime.

Edit: One key difference is Flutter seems to do everything with procedural code. QML is based on a declarative DSL plus Javascript.

Re: Flutter 2

#82

Post by eseidelGoogle »

gareim wrote: post #20
kyrra wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(googler, opinion is my own). The (new) google Pay app on iOS[0] and Android[1] are flutter based. I'm on Android, so I don't know it's behavior on iOS. [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-pay-save-pay-manage/id1... [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

Google Pay on the iPhone XS had so much jank and UI lag when I last used it a month ago.

[Flutter Eng. Dir here]

I replied above as well. My team has also not been satisfied with the performance of the GPay app on all devices. We've been working with the GPay team since release and made many improvements in both Flutter and the GPay app. I expect there will be an updated GPay app soon, with still more performance improvements in the pipeline.

Re: Flutter 2

#83

Post by whymarrh »

dstaley wrote: post #7

Flutter for Web feels like such a wild step backwards in terms of functionality that I'm not sure the benefits it brings are worth it. I just tried a few samples, and basic interactions like selecting text, saving images, and opening links in new tabs don't work. This is the result of rendering everything to a element. I'm much more interested in a React Native style approach, which seems to provide a consistent set…

> This is the result of rendering everything to a element.

If the accessibility story isn't rock-solid, frankly this is a non-starter for a lot of applications. Web apps suck in a lot of ways but regular HTML has pretty great accessibility properties.

Re: Flutter 2

#84

Post by renewiltord »

krasin wrote: post #72
timsneath wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's running in development mode, since it's a scratchpad for live coding. Try something like https://flutterplasma.dev for an example of Flutter's web support when compiled in release mode.

Thanks for the link. To confirm the point of copying text being broken: try doing that at https://flutterplasma.dev/ -- it kind of works, but not really, no.

Ah fuck me. This is awful. You have to be precisely on the text to select it. I frequently offset my mouse a little to the left of the element to ensure I select the whole text. Even a little bit off to the left and nothing.

I love the idea, but this sounds like it's going to be unpleasant for me. Hopefully they figure out these UX things.

Re: Flutter 2

#85

Post by capableweb »

refulgentis wrote: post #66
dstaley wrote: post #7

Flutter for Web feels like such a wild step backwards in terms of functionality that I'm not sure the benefits it brings are worth it. I just tried a few samples, and basic interactions like selecting text, saving images, and opening links in new tabs don't work. This is the result of rendering everything to a element. I'm much more interested in a React Native style approach, which seems to provide a consistent set…

Things changed a lot, I observed the same symptoms as late as late 2020, I can't reproduce these issues now In general Flutter for Web is _amazing_ if you want to deploy an app. after seeing this thread, pretty clear to me its almost a perfect nerdsnipe - makes perfect sense if you're already building a Flutter codebase, sounds bonkers if you build web apps.

> I can't reproduce these issues now

dstaley just said that those issues happen now. " I just tried a few samples, and ..."

I just tried the demos over at https://flutter.github.io/samples/#?platform=web and I concur, Flutter is utterly horrible for everything the web stands for. So not amazing and seems to actively make everything worse.

Re: Flutter 2

#86

Post by rbinv »

dhbradshaw wrote: post #79
dstaley wrote: post #7

Flutter for Web feels like such a wild step backwards in terms of functionality that I'm not sure the benefits it brings are worth it. I just tried a few samples, and basic interactions like selecting text, saving images, and opening links in new tabs don't work. This is the result of rendering everything to a element. I'm much more interested in a React Native style approach, which seems to provide a consistent set…

They were pretty clear about the intention here: make the web available as a platform for running mobile and desktop-style apps. If you're trying to create a classical website, it's not the right tool. Use html and css. If you're trying to make a rich app, I'd bet on Flutter. I'd be interested in seeing it become easier to make a combination of the two -- flutter apps embedded in classical websites.

> flutter apps embedded in classical websites.

Sounds like Java applets.

Re: Flutter 2

#87

Post by sydd »

mda wrote: post #64
randomchars wrote: post #35

The idea sounds very appealing, especially to an indie developer: being able to ship your app on multiple platforms from a single codebase is kind of the holy grail. Unfortunately, the result is.... I tested this Flutter example[1], on a 16" MBP with and i7, and it is janky as it can get, it feels like I'm using a 15 year old computer. From the code it looks like the whole thing is... rendered on canvas? I'll pass. […

Well, to give counterpoint, just tested on Chrome / Windows (ok-ish CPU, decent GPU) all demos are buttery smooth no lag or jank whatsoever.

I've tested on my phone (1yr old pretty good Android one) and the whole thing is very laggy runs with like 10fps. What about a11y?

The whole thing feels like Adobe Flex in 2010. It solves a great deal of problems that the web had but introduced a plethora of others.

Re: Flutter 2

#88

Post by rexelhoff »

dstaley wrote: post #7

Flutter for Web feels like such a wild step backwards in terms of functionality that I'm not sure the benefits it brings are worth it. I just tried a few samples, and basic interactions like selecting text, saving images, and opening links in new tabs don't work. This is the result of rendering everything to a element. I'm much more interested in a React Native style approach, which seems to provide a consistent set…

Welp. We can kiss accessibility goodbye then, can't we?

Re: Flutter 2

#89

Post by agumonkey »

dstaley wrote: post #7

Flutter for Web feels like such a wild step backwards in terms of functionality that I'm not sure the benefits it brings are worth it. I just tried a few samples, and basic interactions like selecting text, saving images, and opening links in new tabs don't work. This is the result of rendering everything to a element. I'm much more interested in a React Native style approach, which seems to provide a consistent set…

Funny how two days ago some webdev website made a big article about flutter vs kotlin but didn't mention the UX side of it at all.

Re: Flutter 2

#90

Post by underwater »

ardit33 wrote: post #67

This is DOA..... fine for some generic/basic app, but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole if you are building a serious app. This is another attempt from javascript/web front end developers trying to unseat native apps.... with the naive promise that is truly build once, run everywhere... It hasn't worked since 1995.... as these frameworks get decent, native apps push the envelope and user expectations just incr…

I don't believe that the idea is fundamentally flawed. Having bespoke widgets rather than stock OS ones is pretty standard.

If you can render swipes, fades, blurs and transforms you can create premium experiences without being native.

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