Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 106 posts

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#81

Post by MertsA »

csomar wrote: post #62
jfoster wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's actually being purchased in a transaction? Post-purchase, how is it any different than simply turning up & using the land?

These lands are usually owned by "agreement" within the "gangs" that are holding or controlling them. It happens a lot where I live until the government cracks down and everyone loses "his" land. The reality is that they are doing temporary activity on the land (like raising cattle) and so if the government cracked down, they'll just take their cows and move on to the next land. The purchase price is too low and that…

At the very least one of the transactions from the article was just some random middle class guy selling land he's never owned, not some organised criminals demanding protection money.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#82

Post by School-Cotton »

hetspookjee wrote: post #73
nindalf wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have a way of verifying ownership of any other item on the marketplace either. That tablet I have for sale - did I steal it? Maybe. A thief can easily supply a forged receipt. An honest person who bought if for real might have lost their receipt. It's an intractable problem. It's not possible to verify ownership of every item there is. Should online marketplaces simply shut down then? If they are, people w…

No, I don't think all market places should shut down. This seems like an isolated problem: brazil land for sale is disputed. So, indeed I'm arguing that facebook should upend their services for this specific items untill it's been resolved. Regarsing the profit. I can't give a specific number. But nothing is free on Facebook or Google. You pay with your data and they provide you a service in return. Facebook creates…

It’s not an isolated problem to Brazilian land. Practically every item on any marketplace has some possibility of being stolen, or in the case of luxury/fashion goods, counterfeit.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#83

Post by unnouinceput »

So corrupt local baron uses Facebook to illegally sell and protect the buyer that does an illegal deforestation of sold area? And this is Facebook problem...how? Sounds like anyone who is a medium for ads can and will host this type of ads.

I am pretty sure I can do the same on Washington Post, should I've be such a local baron.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#85

Post by forinti »

csomar wrote: post #63
MattGaiser wrote: post #6

The Brazilian government doesn’t seem to care either.

It's too expensive to enforce the law in the jungle. Also it doesn't bring any profit.

They would probably reconsider this if they calculated how much it will cost to not have the Amazon there.

Rain in the southeast and central-west regions depend a lot on the Amazon.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#86

Post by childintime »

This article is a bit sensational: it doesn't mention these plots are being sold via any craigslist type of service, not just facebook.

I have seen another listing service push back a little against such postings, but given the ample space between the law and illegality, it is hard for them to identify semi-legitimate postings from illegitimate ones.

That space exists, because the transfer of property came with excessive taxes, procedures and costs the poor could not or didn't want to afford. So children inherited the property but not formally. Then they would sell their rights to the property rights. And so on. The "cartórios" (registration offices) register these contracts instead. The property itself slides into informality. In the end the government itself is to blame.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#87

Post by childintime »

childintime wrote: post #86

This article is a bit sensational: it doesn't mention these plots are being sold via any craigslist type of service, not just facebook. I have seen another listing service push back a little against such postings, but given the ample space between the law and illegality, it is hard for them to identify semi-legitimate postings from illegitimate ones. That space exists, because the transfer of property came with exces…

Background on the Amazon plots: perverse capitalistic incentives drive this "real estate development". Which are typically white-washed by the current president.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#88

Post by Jon_Lowtek »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #75
thanhhaimai wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinions are my own. > How many problems would be fixed if we stopped feeling sorry for the rich corporations and started requiring them to assume responsibility for the messes they create? Instead of "problems would be fixed", it would be "how many more problems would be created". - USPS should assume responsibility for scam mails since they help deliver them. Laws would be created to require USPS to "screen" all ma…

Not really. Facebook is not some neutral carrier of information. It's not a packet switched network. It's pretty much an advertising company. How could they not be responsible for the adverts they run? It's actually illegal to tamper with mail or wiretap phones without a warrant. The post office and telecommunications companies can't know what is going on. Same logic applies to networks and it's actually enforced via…

> It has every bit of information required to make these decisions. Failing to do so is negligence.

One could argue that the Ministry of State Security can and should do full surveillance of all citizens, collect all available information, including wiretapping all phones using blanket warrants, and act on it to detect and deter crime, including the crime of political opposition, at all cost, and not doing so is negligence, because it is possible and if it is possible it must be done.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#89

Post by childintime »

childintime wrote: post #86

This article is a bit sensational: it doesn't mention these plots are being sold via any craigslist type of service, not just facebook. I have seen another listing service push back a little against such postings, but given the ample space between the law and illegality, it is hard for them to identify semi-legitimate postings from illegitimate ones. That space exists, because the transfer of property came with exces…

The state of Rondônia is highlighted in the article. Makes sense, as it has been almost fully and industrially deforested in the last 20 years. Open up Google Earth and slide it back in time. You'll see deforestation leaving scars on an enormous scale, with obvious corruption of the state government.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#90

Post by tomxor »

childintime wrote: post #86

This article is a bit sensational: it doesn't mention these plots are being sold via any craigslist type of service, not just facebook. I have seen another listing service push back a little against such postings, but given the ample space between the law and illegality, it is hard for them to identify semi-legitimate postings from illegitimate ones. That space exists, because the transfer of property came with exces…

> given the ample space between the law and illegality, it is hard for them to identify semi-legitimate postings from illegitimate ones.

Would it be so wrong for such a company to take a moral stance and just say no to sale of any land part of the Amazon forest regardless of local legality?

Post reply on HN