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The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

scientificamerican.com

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Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#81

Post by SamBam »

CivBase wrote: post #49
bskrobisz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these are reasonable. I should highlight, though, that 1, 3 and 4 are true for sign languages as well -- 3 and 4 doubly so (given how large a component individual expressions and gestures play in communication without sound).

> 1, 3 and 4 are true for sign languages as well That's true so long as the speaker is the one signing, which is probably true in the context of video calls but probably not in the context of TV.

I believe 4 is. At least, in the sense that intent, rhythm and emotion can be conveyed by a signing translator better than text can.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#82

Post by spijdar »

willcipriano wrote: post #77
rblatz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So from my memory of ASL in college there was less worry about being rude or not offending. So if you were asked who someone was, you would start with their most identifiable feature. So if they are the only black guy in the room, or the most over weight you’d sign the black guy or the fat guy. Whereas in English it’s basically a joke now that we’d use just about any other descriptor besides those.

Does the language have the sort of precision required to say something like "rotund gentleman" instead? If not I can't really blame someone from saying something in the most polite way a language practically allows.

Based on my very limited experience and the posts above, I'd say sign languages don't really have the luxury of having many "synonyms" with slightly different connotations, at least in the same way you'd list words in a dictionary. jbergstroem mentions "always trying to find the simplest way of explaining yourself", so I think the idea is people just say things how they are, in simple terms. I imagine ideas like politeness are instead conveyed in other body language, facial expressions maybe, instead of dancing with words.

But I'm just speculating, I'd love to hear someone's firsthand experiences here.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#83

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

rblatz wrote: post #74
wittjeff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Cued Speech (one-handed phonetic signing). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn4e9V3oigs It's a different modality of the local spoken language, not a separate language like ASL. You can learn it in a weekend. IMO it should be taught to everyone in the 2nd grade to help with phonological awareness, which is helpful for visual literacy. But it'd also be useful in a lot of noisy situations throughout life.

From my recollection cued speech and signed English both are controversial in the Deaf community. They are seen as clunky and forced on them by the hearing community. I think the biggest issue is that most languages including ASL have about the same informational density for a given unit of time. Whereas Cued Speech and Signed English have significantly lower informational density.

Sure, but if you're not deaf then the tradeoffs might be quite different

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#84

Post by swilliamsio »

leesalminen wrote: post #69
medstrom wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this occurs more in some countries than others, with low sign language awareness. Maybe the US especially due to monolinguality. It seems people love to assume things about other languages that are false and can be insulting. Like when you say an English sentence to a Mexican who doesn't understand it, and you respond by saying the same thing again but louder and slower. It looks like you think they're dense.…

> Like when you say an English sentence to a Mexican who doesn't understand it, and you respond by saying the same thing again but louder and slower. It looks like you think they're dense. My wife is learning Spanish right now because we are moving to Costa Rica. Her most used phrase is “de espacio, por favor” which means “slowly, please”. She’s able to understand much more of the language when folks slow down and an…

Yea, but speaking slowly and clearly is _only_ useful to anyone learning the language.

If I spoke to you in Klingon, and you don't understand Klingon. Would speaking to you in Klingon slower and louder help you? Undoubtedly, no, it would instead make me a rude person.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#85

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

jfk13 wrote: post #76
dnndev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super powers Sign Language -> communicate with someone in a noisy room (across the room even) Braille -> A friend of mine learned braille so he could "read" books after his parents said lights out. What a rebel.

Isn't that what flashlights are for?

Way easier to hide. If you were brave enough, you could literally read braille under the covers with your eyes closed while your parent had their head stuck through the door to check on you.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#86

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

diydsp wrote: post #61
nsxwolf wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I always sense anger seething below the surface of any conversation about sign language?

I know exactly what you mean. My gf works at a school for the deaf and we're both hearing.... and I'm sensitive to this pensiveness you mention. Three reasons: there is so much bad info out there, asl and deaf culture are evolving as we observe, and hardly anyone is cataloging or curating the info. There are no ambassadors. It parallels health information imo. I guess I should add the contemporary attitude of self-ri…

> knowing that it was Illegal to drive a car with headphones on, I once dared to ask if deaf ppl were allowed to drive.

Did you ever get an actual answer? I'd guess yes, but it's a fair question

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#87

Post by blamestross »

CivBase wrote: post #22

Perhaps someone on HN knows the answer to a question I've had for years now. Why use sign language on platforms where text is accessible? I've wondered this since I first saw a TV broadcast with a signer off to the side. Isn't that what closed captions are for? Surely it's faster to read text captions than the gestures of some low-res recording of a human stuck in a tiny box in the corner of the screen. Video chat pl…

Many people who rely on ASL are illiterate. Turns out a phonetic portrayal of language they don't know isn't the easiest to learn, assuming they have the support to do it. Sign language exists because it is the best tool for the job.

http://www.deaf-culture-online.com/aslnotguilty.html

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#88

Post by hibbelig »

CivBase wrote: post #22

Perhaps someone on HN knows the answer to a question I've had for years now. Why use sign language on platforms where text is accessible? I've wondered this since I first saw a TV broadcast with a signer off to the side. Isn't that what closed captions are for? Surely it's faster to read text captions than the gestures of some low-res recording of a human stuck in a tiny box in the corner of the screen. Video chat pl…

> _Why use sign language on platforms where text is accessible?_

I'm not an expert, but I suppose that text is a foreign language to those born deaf. They might prefer to communicate in their native language.

(But if someone has lost their hearing after learning to read and write, then it would be different.)

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#89

Post by BurningFrog »

rblatz wrote: post #74
wittjeff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Cued Speech (one-handed phonetic signing). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn4e9V3oigs It's a different modality of the local spoken language, not a separate language like ASL. You can learn it in a weekend. IMO it should be taught to everyone in the 2nd grade to help with phonological awareness, which is helpful for visual literacy. But it'd also be useful in a lot of noisy situations throughout life.

From my recollection cued speech and signed English both are controversial in the Deaf community. They are seen as clunky and forced on them by the hearing community. I think the biggest issue is that most languages including ASL have about the same informational density for a given unit of time. Whereas Cued Speech and Signed English have significantly lower informational density.

Without knowing anything about deaf attitudes in general, I've learned to not mistake the loudest and angriest voices in a group as representative of all of it.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#90

Post by simion314 »

gambiting wrote: post #9
simion314 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dread the day when Google/Youtube will start blocking accounts based on what their Speech to Text thinks someone is speaking.

They already do. There was the case just the other day where someone explaining chess strategy had their video removed for "racial violence" when talking about.....white and black sides of the chess board. Obviously google knows what was said thanks to the speech to text translation.

Yeah, but I was thinking at people with non standard accents, there a large number of people outside US that make Youtube videos and their accent is tricking the AI and the automatic subs will contain random words. The AI will have a big bias against non US creators or even US people with an accent that is not popular in the Google training data.
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