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LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

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Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#81

Post by AmericanChopper »

ThalesX wrote: post #78
AmericanChopper wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about assessing their work and thats that. That’s not so simple with time and materials billing. If somethings taking too long to deliver or is being delivered to a low standard, it could easily be explained by having to deal with unplanned problems (which could also be entirely the clients fault), or it could just as easily be a contractor being slow and/or useless. I’ve worked as a contractor for quite a long…

It seems like you're trying to shield yourself from "complete dead weight contractors" which should be easy enough to spot. Certainly don't need a dystopian monitoring system to pluck up their monitors every 10 minutes, and have months of research on trailing data to come to the conclusion that a contractor is dead weight.

I am myself a contractor so I’m not trying to shield myself from anything. They are however not simple to spot at all. I mean, I can spot them quite easily (at least I think I can). But I tend to work for people who hire me because they lack the skills that I have (or at least the skills I convince them I have). Their ability to evaluate the quality of my work, or reason about the problems I report to have with their systems, is close to non-existent. If I did terrible work it could take them quite a long time to notice, and then they’d just get themselves stuck trying to figure out if it was my terrible work, or the terrible work of a different contractor, or the terrible work of some of their employees, or simply the consequence of some other terrible work somebody else did 20 years ago. All of whom have a rather clear incentive to point the finger at each other. But don’t worry, whenever projects like that fail to deliver their planned value, there’s always some middle manager near by to say that the problem “should have been easy” to avoid.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#82

Post by baxtr »

seanwilson wrote: post #31

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

It also depends on how the client wants to steer a freelancer. I had one freelancer charging less than I was expecting. So I asked him why and he said, that the monitoring makes his machine unstable so he wouldn't log all the time he worked on the project. I told him to log the hours manually. And the problem was solved.

Because, on Upwork, the client can decide whether or not the freelancer is allowed to put in hours manually. What I am trying to say is: it's an option that you don't have to use.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#83

Post by onion2k »

Jommi wrote: post #54
seanwilson wrote: post #31

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

If you don't do this as a quality worker, you're basically subsidizing for those that on purpose try to do lower quality work.

That assumes that the quality of your work is tied to the amount of time you're actively using your computer. Time making notes in a notepad, or thinking while you walk around, or having a work-based conversation with someone, or mapping something out on a whiteboard adds to the quality of an application.

Heck, I've often found that taking a break to read HN or make a cup of coffee or even watch a YT video results in me figuring out what's causing a bug in some code. Apparently my subconscious is great at debugging.

The converse is true too. I've worked with people who actively code for 8 hours and yet have produced very little usable code at the end of the day. They needed 8 hours to do what a better developer could do in a couple of hours.

You can't judge the quality of a developer's work by looking at how much time they spend in their IDE.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#84

Post by mdocherty »

f8 wrote: post #69
seanwilson wrote: post #31

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

I work full-time and get monitored like this. Ever hear of Hubstaff? It's an unfortunate reality for some remote workers and I don't agree with it but it happens. There can be an inherent distrust from employers when they're unable to see you physically working. It's more of an assurance thing, but I've gotten used to working exclusively in VM's.

Where do you work?

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#86

Post by anovikov »

Ayesh wrote: post #29
anovikov wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just wanted to weed out small time freelancers. The fee is 5% for >$10K customer-freelancer relationship... My average fee is about 7-8%, or about 10% including what the customer pays.

Yes. But that's what market places are for, to reach out new customers. If you have a relationship with a client for more than 10K, why continue to pay 5% on top of payment fees? They messaging software is not very useful, and time tracking feature is hostile for many. A more comparable feature would be for the client to pay a fixed fee to post, and allow them to work outside upwork.

Messaging part is indeed absurdly awful. Here i agree with you.

Otherwise, Upwork is just great, to the point that i wouldn't even talk to a client coming from outside of it just because all of them turned out to be little but spam.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#87

Post by codesuela »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #81
ThalesX wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you're trying to shield yourself from "complete dead weight contractors" which should be easy enough to spot. Certainly don't need a dystopian monitoring system to pluck up their monitors every 10 minutes, and have months of research on trailing data to come to the conclusion that a contractor is dead weight.

I am myself a contractor so I’m not trying to shield myself from anything. They are however not simple to spot at all. I mean, I can spot them quite easily (at least I think I can). But I tend to work for people who hire me because they lack the skills that I have (or at least the skills I convince them I have). Their ability to evaluate the quality of my work, or reason about the problems I report to have with their…

If the client does not have the competence to spot bad work, how are screenshots gonna help?

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#88

Post by admissionsguy »

seanwilson wrote: post #31

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

> Is all this just taking advantage of freelancers who don't know how to market themselves, or am I missing something?

It is, sadly. Same with e.g. Toptal, they charge clients $100 for my work and pay me $50-$60, which is still higher than any clients I can find myself.

It is frustrating to know they are capturing such a big fraction of my worth to the client just because they talk to the right people and I don't, but it's what it is.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#90

Post by White_Wolf »

Griffinsauce wrote: post #53
Gustomaximus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a client like this for new freelancers/employees that are working full time or larger jobs. It is intrusive but 100% is needed for some people or they take the piss. I'm too busy to follow their workload and sit there estimating times of jobs match hours. I check it one a week for ~10min to see hours logged per day and quick random to check its not loads of time wasting. It feels intrusive but there is little d…

What if I sketch out a solution to a complex problem for most of the day and then execute it in an hour? This will only catch the most ridiculous abuse that will be visible from results as well and harm everybody else. And, if it's not visible in the results... why do you care?

exactly this. I usually go for a walk and start making a mental model of what I have to do, what order, etc. By the time I'm actually in front of my laptop I already have a clear image and what,when,where and how and just need to write it all down.
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