Live data from Hacker News

Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

kjzz.org

81–90 of 434 posts

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even if it was a bug... I don't understand why software would prevent somebody opening the gate and letting the inmate out...

1.5 million prisoners in the USA. You want to go through that list, without software?

No, I want the presumably thousands of people who work at prisons to each go through their list of prisoners and determine when prisoners should be released, using the assistance of software but not completely deferring to software.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#82
post #5

I'd hesitate to call this a software bug, this is a complete breakdown of planning. FTA - "“Currently this calculation is not in ACIS at all,” the report states. “ACIS can calculate 1 earned credit for every 6 days served, but this is a new calculation.”" tldr; a new law was passed that allowed for a different credit schedule for days served, and the system hasn't been updated to make that calculation.

It's the problem with silver bullets like YAGNI: Laws change, if your system is dependent on laws, then you can be sure that new rules will need to be added. You need a system that is configurable, you can be sure you are going to need it. Of course, if there's money to be made in having a change-resistant system, well that's a different story. YAGNIAYWPTTNFI (You ARE gonna need it, and you will pay through the nose…

You'd need a configuration system that is so general it would become a programming language. And then nobody could configure it except the original programmers because now your rules are written in the weird badly-designed programming language you developed.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#84
I was once told that if I wanted to make millions of dollars instantly I should write software to just calculate jail exit dates. With "Time for good behavior", skipping parole, credit for time served you can give five people a inmate's jacket and get five different dates easily, and should rationally expect to.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#85
The company in question, "Business & Decision NA" is a French company, though their website is pretty sparse on the details: https://www.linkedin.com/organization-guest/company/business...

So, some French brogrammers are preventing US citizens from being released from prison due to incompetence.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#86

With prison incentives being what they are, it’s hard not to think that it’s beneficial for the profession to hold on to inmates longer.

Don't ascribe to malice... The dates and sentences can change so many times it's surprisingly hard to calculate. I've watched people who try earnestly to get the dates right complain about how hard it is.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#87
post #3

It's like gov system don't even have test cases. They should, and they should be public. Why aren't these softwares for the public open source? See also: employment security sites, cannabis track and trace, driving license, etc. Some of these bugs cause direct financial harm to citizens and this one is much worse! Show me the test cases! Show me the code!!

In best cases, the test cases are good and pass... and yet such errors will still abound.

Why? Because the spec for which the tests where written didn't include some contingency, for example with software that rigidly require certain steps to happen and doesn't provide a human-controlled override.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even if it was a bug... I don't understand why software would prevent somebody opening the gate and letting the inmate out...

Not picking on this comment in particular and not a domain expert, but just a few ideas: - System needs to track sexual offenders and provide updates on their locations to relevant municipalities - Parole officer check, requirements, and termination system needs to know who, what, and where - Statistical record-keeping systems for sentence lengths need to be updated - If felons, voting systems need to be kept updated…

Literally none of those reasons justifies keeping someone in a human cage.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#89
post #55
post #20

This is an outrage. It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. Somehow software has become the ultimate vehicle for bureaucratic violence. Software is simultaneously infallible and the perfect scapegoat. The inmate who lost their phone privileges for 30 days is an example…

Software that infringes on the public (even if they are criminals) as opposed to software that people can opt to use or not, needs to have a very serious question asked at design time: If the software produces an incorrect result, what mechanism exists to override it/audit it/provide damages etc. The fact people are not asking that is worrying. I understand why the system was not designed to do something that happene…

I have a very cynical take. Probably too cynical. The ability to shift blame to software as opposed to the humans responsible for administering a bureaucracy is exactly what makes it so appealing. The question is ignored intentionally.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#90

The company in question, "Business & Decision NA" is a French company, though their website is pretty sparse on the details: https://www.linkedin.com/organization-guest/company/business... So, some French brogrammers are preventing US citizens from being released from prison due to incompetence.

Clearly you haven't read the article because it's not the programmers' faults. The software is doing what it was designed to do. The prison failed to get it updated with new requirements.
Post reply on HN