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A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

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Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#81

Post by chii »

tticvs wrote: post #44
lixtra wrote: post #39

From the suicide note: > Considering that this will have an impact on my career in the future and my reputation in the area of Computer Architecture, my future life will be worse than death and I will be totally in a dilemma. Maybe we also need to change academic culture to allow people to confess academic fraud, receive punishment and than be forgiven and continue academic careers. Currently once you started, there…

This is similar to the advantage to amnesty for corrupt dictators proposed by Mesquita & White in The Dictators Handbook. Basically giving authoritarian regimes an alternative to fighting to the death might increase overall utility.

but it also gives the moral hazard of someone wanting to start such a regime, because they know they can profit/garner personal wealth during their reign, then beg for amnesty after a while (when it looks like their grip on power is lowered), and possibly, hiding their wealth gained away somewhere secret.

Where as, in a world where such amnesty doesn't exist, they may have to face the possibility of being executed when they lose power (which, if history is to be believed, they eventually do). Therefore, some who are more cowards but cunning won't want to be a dictator, and thus, you end up with a more democratic system.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#82

Post by phabora »

tobmlt wrote: post #19

I want to express sympathies in a particular way: When I had a job I didn’t want, in a city i didn’t want, no kids, no wife, and prospects abounding, it was easy to speak truth to power. I did it, and I was right technically, businesswise, and morally. What a win...(?) Now, I have my dream job, my dream location, my own damn house, and my family. -Whole thing feels like a dream I might wake up from if I am not carefu…

I don’t understand what kind of sympathy this is supposed to express. Presumably the “kid” was really desperate and didn’t know what else to do. Even if someone from successful picket lane might know better.

Sometimes it’s better to say nothing.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#83

Post by dash2 »

bjornsing wrote: post #76
dash2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is different. Peer review is far from perfect but: * Most of my papers have had thoughtful comments. Typically, they improved the paper, sometimes a lot. * I have very rarely been asked to quote a specific paper from a specific author. Of course, pointing out important references that the paper has missed is part of peer review, so this would not necessarily be evidence of corruption. * There are loads…

So how do you explain the information in the OP?

I don't know enough about the specific situation of computer science at the University of Florida to add anything useful. It sounds like a serious scandal.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#84

Post by timkam »

dash2 wrote: post #38
adev_ wrote: post #11

I'm gonna get enemies for that .... But let's face it: the Academia peer review process is pretty rotten. - Many organisations could not care less about whatever crap you publish as long as you publish. And if possible a lot. - Many journal's reviewers are friend of friends and you can often easily guess their names, even in double blinded review. - Many reviewers care more about you quoting their own paper than givi…

My experience is different. Peer review is far from perfect but: * Most of my papers have had thoughtful comments. Typically, they improved the paper, sometimes a lot. * I have very rarely been asked to quote a specific paper from a specific author. Of course, pointing out important references that the paper has missed is part of peer review, so this would not necessarily be evidence of corruption. * There are loads…

I largely agree with this comment, but this just means the underlying issues are more subtle. For example:

* I typically get thoughtful reviews, and in particular critical reviews are often thoughtful. Still, I know that some people assert influence on the outcome of the reviewing process of their own papers. Also, there's a fine line: for example, many journals allow you to recommend reviewers for your papers. If you're well-connected, you can recommend your best friends and your editor friend follows your advice. Is this misconduct? I'd say it depends. After some decades in a math-heavy community, most people who are experienced and competent in the context of a highly specialized sub-field will be your "friends".

* Journals that are outright predatory are, of course, a no-go. Still, there are edge cases like some MDPI journals; sometimes there are special issues from credible, relatively junior people in my community. Should we support them or not? Also, my funding provider wants me to publish in high-profile, "big publisher" journals and pays the open access fee; these journals typically rank much higher than community-owned/not-for-profit venues. On the long run, it's better to fully move to community-owned venues only, but as a junior researcher I feel I cannot afford it at the moment.

Personally, for me the problem does not come from outright and obvious ethics violations; sure, I know of some individuals who I consider somewhat problematic, but I don't think these people control the community. For me the problem is to navigate all the grey areas, knowing that the system is largely ethics-agnostic.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#85

Post by zelphirkalt »

sieste wrote: post #34

It's rather sad that you can guess from the title that this is probably about academia. I have to say though that I can't confirm any of this for my institutions, professors, and fields of research. I've always worked with honest and caring professors, who cared more about correctness of results than headlines and fame.

I was not so sure, reading the title. At first I was thinking about whether it might be about the Internet or perhaps even society in general.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#86

Post by sn41 »

bachmeier wrote: post #72
tobmlt wrote: post #19

I want to express sympathies in a particular way: When I had a job I didn’t want, in a city i didn’t want, no kids, no wife, and prospects abounding, it was easy to speak truth to power. I did it, and I was right technically, businesswise, and morally. What a win...(?) Now, I have my dream job, my dream location, my own damn house, and my family. -Whole thing feels like a dream I might wake up from if I am not carefu…

> I know academia being f’ed is a big part of it I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the way you've ended your comment. This lets the people responsible off the hook. The guilty party is an individual (and perhaps several individuals). Academia, peer review, conferences, and organizations didn't cause this. The professor was responsible. He wasn't just a cog in the system.

The incentive structures in academia make it easier to opt to cheat. A furious mediocrity is considered more desirable than thoughtful work : Thoughtful work is not "high impact", high "h-index" or whatever, but stuff that makes you enlightened, and makes you smile and go "oh yeah! now I see it".

But academic administrators do not understand that, because they have never had that experience, and have no idea why some professors go very quiet when an obscure faculty member speaks up to make a point in a quiet voice - that is because that quiet person has earned genuine respect from the other faculty present.

Quality is rare, quality has pauses and takes breathers.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#87

Post by lotsofpulp »

feralimal wrote: post #61
tobmlt wrote: post #19

I want to express sympathies in a particular way: When I had a job I didn’t want, in a city i didn’t want, no kids, no wife, and prospects abounding, it was easy to speak truth to power. I did it, and I was right technically, businesswise, and morally. What a win...(?) Now, I have my dream job, my dream location, my own damn house, and my family. -Whole thing feels like a dream I might wake up from if I am not carefu…

"I was right technically, businesswise, and morally." ... and in third place, morality. And now lost in the distance. I'm not a Christian, but this is worth considering by everyone: "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul? Or what will a man give as an exchange for his soul?"

> I'm not a Christian, but this is worth considering by everyone:

>"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul? Or what will a man give as an exchange for his soul?"

This would only affect people who assume “they” have an immortal component, i.e. a soul.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#88

Post by lotsofpulp »

AnHonestComment wrote: post #50
xenihn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now, I have my dream job, my dream location, my own damn house, and my family. -Whole thing feels like a dream I might wake up from if I am not careful... and I feel totally weighed down when it comes to speaking up in a way I would have never countenanced a few years ago. I'm not at this point yet, but reading this makes me wonder why any employer would ever prefer younger employees with nothing tying them down, fo…

It’s a trade off: Younger workers have less to lose, so tend to leave more — but they’re also less experienced and tend to have lower expectations for the workplace. Older workers are less likely to leave because it’s disruptive, but they’re also more experienced at the political side of life — and tend to insist on things like reasonable hours, professional management, etc. My personal stance is that trying to explo…

> My personal stance is that trying to exploit your workers is a losing game

Maybe in highly paid and creative fields, but for the vast majority of business around the world, I observe exploiting the power imbalance between employer and employee to be very beneficial for the employer.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#89

Post by timwaagh »

I just want to note that nothing caused suicide other than his decision to kill himself. I don't condone suicide as a method of protest. The damage to the family and the person are too severe. He talked about another world in his letter. That doesn't happen and I hope he meant that metaphorically, because otherwise he really did not know what he was doing. I wish media stopped reporting on suicides except in statistics. Not that I'm saying academic fraud is okay, it's not, it's evil and I would hope they get jail. But the media should not put suicide on a pedestal.

Re: A Dishonest, Indifferent, and Toxic Culture

#90

Post by timwaagh »

xenihn wrote: post #29
tobmlt wrote: post #19

I want to express sympathies in a particular way: When I had a job I didn’t want, in a city i didn’t want, no kids, no wife, and prospects abounding, it was easy to speak truth to power. I did it, and I was right technically, businesswise, and morally. What a win...(?) Now, I have my dream job, my dream location, my own damn house, and my family. -Whole thing feels like a dream I might wake up from if I am not carefu…

>Now, I have my dream job, my dream location, my own damn house, and my family. -Whole thing feels like a dream I might wake up from if I am not careful... and I feel totally weighed down when it comes to speaking up in a way I would have never countenanced a few years ago. I'm not at this point yet, but reading this makes me wonder why any employer would ever prefer younger employees with nothing tying them down, fo…

Having to pay less is pretty major if you are the one doing the paying.
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