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“User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

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Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#81

Post by xpe »

koonsolo wrote: post #73

Could we introduce this kind of addiction in healthy things, like excising or healthy diet or anything like that? I've never seen it work in practice, so why are we not able to do that?

A good habit of exercise and diet is self-reinforcing.

What is the difference between self-reinforcing and habit-forming? I see three differences.

1. Who is in control? A runner is in relatively more control, because the act of running does not require a gamified online experience.

2. What are the ethical ramifications? These are subjective. To be clear, subjective certainly does not mean unimportant. It means people may disagree. In my view, people largely disagree on the "margins" of ethics -- meaning there is a wide swath of common ground.

3. There are some physiological differences; I'm not an expert. It seems that both the runner's high [1] and social media involve dopamine, but they appear to use different mechanisms. ("Runner's high" seems to involve endorphins as a precursor.)

[1] https://archives.drugabuse.gov/blog/post/chasing-runners-hig...

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#82

Post by ramphastidae »

skohan wrote: post #45
luplex wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is how AI takes over humanity. Humans are so short-sighted, we don't even need a superintelligence to outsmart us. We happily stand by and collect profits while letting the AI do whatever it wants. Really, we need regulation that makes companies care about side-effects of their AI technology.

I have sometimes mused about how we have worried about "sky net" since the 90's, but we've already let AI have power to control our lives to some extent. For instance, there are cases you can point to where some normal person on Twitter with a couple dozen followers posted the wrong thing, it blew up into an international story, and they eventually got fired from their real-world job for it. Who made the decision tha…

> Who made the decision that this person's views should be widely scrutinized?

This is a serious stretch. The algo didn’t force that person to sign up and post their every ignorant thought on a public forum. People can just put down their phones but they love the attention. Individuals are just as guilty for giving power over themselves to social media.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#83

Post by theNJR »

koonsolo wrote: post #73

Could we introduce this kind of addiction in healthy things, like excising or healthy diet or anything like that? I've never seen it work in practice, so why are we not able to do that?

It’s very easy to get the dopamine loop going with sugar, nicotine, memes, rage-bait, and bikini photos. The brain loves it.

Chicken breast, deadlifts and philosophy takes a lot of effort and the positive effects are delayed. The brain has to be trained to tolerate it. It will always prefer the latter.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#84

Post by delecti »

Mauricebranagh wrote: post #61
slothtrop wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With youtube you're one "recommended" video away from both morally dubious content targeting kids, and qanon conspiracy content.

I think that's more a problem for the grandparents and parents

It's definitely a problem for both. Lots of kids are getting radicalized too, along with the Fox News generation.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#86

Post by xpe »

mromanuk wrote: post #35

> It might be, for all we know, that the primary reason someone posts on social media is anger. If a proper study was done, I bet it would show exactly that. This is a low quality assertion. > “How could they have just scrolled and scrolled all day? Didn’t they know what it was doing to them?” Social media is the new cigarettes. Everyone does it, it’s addictive, it’s harmful, and you should quit. Scrolling is not dif…

There are weaknesses in the article, but the central claims ring true.

It is good, in moderation, to be detail-oriented and skeptical. But don't let these qualities run amok and prevent you from considering the overall claims.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#87

Post by WaitWaitWha »

Read 'The BITE Model Of Authoritarian Control: Undue Influence, Thought Reform, Brainwashing, Mind Control, Trafficking And The Law' by Steven Alan Hassan

or

'Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of “Brainwashing” in China' by Robert Jay Lifton

(both readily available as PDF online)

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#88

Post by PhillyG »

amelius wrote: post #11
magicalhippo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not much of a code though is it? I mean, it's as subtle as "executioner".

I don't know, people, especially kids on YouTube, seem to be proud of the label these days.

They might just be proud to be earning from something they don't find to be too much like work

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#89

Post by macNchz »

Mauricebranagh wrote: post #30
WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #18

I always thought it was pretty obvious when YouTube rolled out screen time reminders. It had nothing to do with anything but minimizing liability in case the general public ever catches on to what they are doing to kids mental health. What’s hilarious is they probably have some “data retention policy” and will get away with it. I guess it’s why SV engineers want to care about social issues so much. When you’re up in…

How is this that much different to similar "concerns" about kids watching to much tv back in the 60's 70's etc.

The type of content is certainly different, since anyone can upload videos to YouTube. The TV that kids were watching “too much” of was super bland, mainstream stuff, for better or worse. There certainly weren’t organizations bulk generating thousands of hours worth of creepy and bizarre videos featuring kids’ favorite characters, for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate
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