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Timezone Bullshit

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Re: Timezone Bullshit

#81

Post by siculars »

jmgao wrote: post #31
jwalton wrote: post #27

Another reason not to use EST/EDT is that they are overspecifying the time zone in most cases. If you ask for output in EDT, but the date is in December (which is not part of daylight savings time) then should the date output be UTC-4 or UTC-5? Technically you asked for EDT. Using EST as a shortcut isn’t a good idea, either - most software will “know what you mean” and use EST or EDT appropriately... except, both The…

> both The USA and Canada have been toying with the idea of dropping daylight savings time Individual states are toying with the idea as well [1], which presents a problem if one of the tzdata locations decides to change its rules. You're screwed no matter what you choose to do. :-( 1: https://www.syracuse.com/state/2020/11/state-senator-introdu...

They already do. See Arizona.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#82

Post by iso1631 »

leokennis wrote: post #50
kenniskrag wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> toying with the idea of dropping daylight Europeans turn back clocks for daylight saving, perhaps for last time. source: https://www.dw.com/en/europeans-turn-back-clocks-for-dayligh...

It will not happen. The science is overwhelming that having one timezone all year long is worse for people, and switching the clock back and forth twice a years is a minor nuisance at most. The EU's "Ban DST" is the same populist bullshit as Trumps "inject Windex to cure COVID". Based on nothing and ignorant at best. And the cherry on top is, if you ask the EU if they want to receive a no strings attached gift of €10…

> The science is overwhelming that having one timezone all year long is worse for people,

Well the majority of people, countries, and square-kilometres of land doesn't have daylight saving so you'll have to do better than that.

At some latitudes with some social norms (regarding things like school start times) DST is beneficial. In others it's not. There are no absolutes here.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#83

Post by Macha »

Lvl999Noob wrote: post #53
mabbo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golf courses. Well, okay, this is my wonderful father's half serious answer that I love to retell. The basic idea is that it's easier to convince everyone that is actually 5:00pm and time to leave work than it is to convince just your boss that you want to start work an hour earlier and leave and hour earlier. This problem is then applied to politicians and other powerful people, who want to go golfing after work. If…

Are there really places that don't observe DST and also don't change their working hours? Just shift the working hours by a few hours when the seasons change. It also gives more granularity for the changes. If 1 week in the whole season is particularly cold, then change the time again for that 1 week.

I assumed this was the norm in places that don't observe DST? Your workday is 9-5, year round, no we're not considering the time the sun sets

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#84

Post by datejfktn »

Hamuko wrote: post #76
datejfktn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For once pretty much no one is aware of this supposed change. There was like a couple of articles on the day it was voted and that's it. This will 100% not happen, it's another one of those things that the EU parliament votes that everyone ignores, and it's perfect ammunition for those complaining that it makes laws without popular consultation. Trying to go forward with this change will generate massive anti EU back…

> it makes laws without popular consultation That's not accurate. > This online consultation, which ran from 4 July to 16 August 2018, received 4.6 million responses from all 28 Member States, the highest number of responses ever received in any Commission public consultation. According to the preliminary results (see annex), 84% of respondents are in favour of putting an end to the bi-annual clock change.

Selection effect. Those who really cared about this commented.

But what about the 99% rest of population? It's a mistake thinking that because they dont realllly care they will accept either way.

Resistance to change is huge, especially when it plays into the narrative "Bruxelles demanded it"

And what I meant by lack of popular consultation is that if you go on EU streets and ask about this change 95% of people will have no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#85

Post by qwertox »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #57
throw0101a wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The closer one is to the poles, the more the number of hours of daylight shifts over the seasons. So at/near the equator, in a place like Panama, you will get roughly 12 hours of daylight in both the December and June Solstices. * https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/panama/panama Whereas in the Edinburgh you go from having 7 hours of daylight in December to over 17 hours in June: * https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/edin…

The infuriating thing is that our solution to this is to change the clock instead of just changing our schedules. It's completely ridiculous.

We shouldn't even adjust our schedules. We should just accept the fact that it is going to be dark at different times.

Then again, this would be an issue for road workers (those who repair highways or other roads) and maybe trash collection services. So it begins... Horrible.

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#86

Post by iso1631 »

throw0101a wrote: post #77
etripe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the science is overwhelming, do you have a source? If not, what are the downsides to having the same timezone all year?

[Some links that I've posted the last few times DST has come up:] The folks who study this: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronobiology Seem to have come to a consensus that if we're going to get rid of DST, then health-wise it is best to have Standard Time year-round: > As an international organization of scientists dedicated to studying circadian and other biological rhythms, the Society for Research on Biologica…

The sun rises in Singapore between 0655 and 0715 depending on the time of the year. How would changing the clock help at all?

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#87

Post by corty »

Hamuko wrote: post #79
corty wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal (edit: and Finland, Greece, Baltic states) has the same timezone. But actually it should be 3 or 4 timezones if you want to be close to solar time. Also, there are people who would prefer having solar zone time +1 (so e.g. UTC+2 in Germany instead of UTC+1). The EU decided to chicken out and let the members decide for themse…

> The EU is currently one timezone for most of its area, the whole continent excluding Portugal has the same timezone. That's definitely not accurate.

Oh, you are right, sorry. The Baltic states, Finland and Greece are UTC+2/3

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#88

Post by iso1631 »

BjoernKW wrote: post #69
Tepix wrote: post #54

It's not just timezones names that are bullshit (they are!), the whole calendar is dumb. Ideally the world should switch to an "earth calendar" where the year begins on the shortest day (currently Dec 21st for 90% of the population) and there are four yearly planet-wide holidays: 1. northern solstice 2. southern solstice 3. northward equinox 4. southward equinox While we are at it, we could also do something more cle…

Part marketing ploy, part genuine attempt to improve time systems, especially in a global context, Swatch actually once tried to do so: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time Unfortunately, .beat time didn’t catch on.

For most people, going to work on Monday and coming home on Tuesday isn't going to catch on (yes some of us work nights, it's rare)

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#89

Post by bombcar »

Lvl999Noob wrote: post #53
mabbo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golf courses. Well, okay, this is my wonderful father's half serious answer that I love to retell. The basic idea is that it's easier to convince everyone that is actually 5:00pm and time to leave work than it is to convince just your boss that you want to start work an hour earlier and leave and hour earlier. This problem is then applied to politicians and other powerful people, who want to go golfing after work. If…

Are there really places that don't observe DST and also don't change their working hours? Just shift the working hours by a few hours when the seasons change. It also gives more granularity for the changes. If 1 week in the whole season is particularly cold, then change the time again for that 1 week.

Even with DST here we still have "winter hours" for many businesses where it doesn't make sense to be open late (10 PM in summer is still light out, 10 PM in winter, sun set 5-6 hours ago).

Re: Timezone Bullshit

#90

Post by majewsky »

Lvl999Noob wrote: post #53
mabbo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golf courses. Well, okay, this is my wonderful father's half serious answer that I love to retell. The basic idea is that it's easier to convince everyone that is actually 5:00pm and time to leave work than it is to convince just your boss that you want to start work an hour earlier and leave and hour earlier. This problem is then applied to politicians and other powerful people, who want to go golfing after work. If…

Are there really places that don't observe DST and also don't change their working hours? Just shift the working hours by a few hours when the seasons change. It also gives more granularity for the changes. If 1 week in the whole season is particularly cold, then change the time again for that 1 week.

That sounds like a huge coordination problem. Those problems are usually solved by some central entity enacting a standard, i.e. government enacting DST.
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