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FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

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Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#81

Post by pimeys »

As a nice winter Sunday activity, I installed the beta to my X230. Now everything seems to work quite nicely, I have: encrypted ZFS, Wayland, Sway and all my development tools installed and working. It took about two hours, a bit less to get here. My first time running FreeBSD on a laptop, mostly just going with OpenBSD or Arch.

The installation was much easier compared to Arch, almost all packages that I wanted I just got with `pkg`. With using sway and wayland, the experience is really really fast and snappy even with this old laptop. At least compared to OpenBSD and xorg, the desktop experience here just flies.

It has been a good Sunday so far...

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#82

Post by [deleted] »

toast0 wrote: post #41
mapgrep wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One key impetus for Linux moving to systemd was faster boot time, parallelizing init tasks. Is FreeBSD looking at moving beyond traditional rc script boot?

There's no need to abandon rc scripts to get parallelism. It looks like there's some work in progress on this [1]. From what I can tell, the change to rcorder to generate parallel start info is there in 13.0, but the change in /etc/rc to request it and to use it is not. You would need to patch that in manually for now. [1] https://wiki.freebsd.org/unitrunker/rcorder

[deleted]

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#83

Post by znpy »

michaelmrose wrote: post #57
mapgrep wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One key impetus for Linux moving to systemd was faster boot time, parallelizing init tasks. Is FreeBSD looking at moving beyond traditional rc script boot?

I would question whether boot time is such a meaningful target. It's trivial to leave a system up days or weeks relying on hibernation or suspend instead. This seems especially true given that freebsd is even more likely than Linux to see use as a server instead of a desktop. Besides boot time on any init system with a fast ssd seems to be pretty damn quick. Saving 10 seconds every month will take a long time to pay…

I generally agree on relying on suspend/resume, but keep in mind that doing so will greatly reduce your laptop battery lifespan.

It's a toll that I decided to accept, but most people aren't aware of that.

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#84

Post by znpy »

tal8d wrote: post #58
mapgrep wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t have to be systemd, macOS has launchd for init, FreeBSD could come up with its own thing. This is a good talk I saw recently (by a FreeBSD contributor) on why these sorts of systems have become more common, and why they seem so sweeping in scope. https://youtu.be/o_AIw9bGogo (In fact systemd and launchd are so tailored to their respective operating systems that FreeBSD likely would have to do their own init…

> This is a good talk That is not a good talk unless you already advocate for abandoning standards, and celebrate Linux's growing power to dictate how the shrinking number of remaining OSes design things. You might easily miss it if you're already onboard with systemd, but in his point by point address of systemd's shortcomings - he repeatedly handwaves and redirects. Systemd is a mess, which is an amazing accomplish…

Standards can become outdated you know?

And by the way standards aren't really the word of some kind of god that you should follow blindly and never question.

Many standards are ratified just to settle the status quo regarding various solutions to a common problem.

At this point, one might even argue that the next "standard" for init systems should just be based off systemd.

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#85

Post by nix23 »

forty wrote: post #79
drewg123 wrote: post #2

This release includes most of the kTLS and NUMA work that I talked about at EuroBSDCon in 2019, including hw kTLS offload support for some NICs. This allows Netflix to serve over 350Gb/s of TLS encrypted video streams from a single 32-core AMD based server (at about 50% CPU).

Hello, I'm genuinely curious: why did you implement it in FreeBSD rather than Linux? Isn't that kind of offload something that already exists in Linux? Or does something in the way Linux is implemented/designed that makes it impractical / impossible to implement as efficiently? Or is somehow Linux not secure enough for your use case? Or not something else enough? I'm asking because I'm always interested to know what…

>I cannot help being a bit sad that contribution like this will only benefit the few people that use FreeBSD

Same could be said the other way around, the thing is Linux can implement it and even take the code, the other way is rather difficult....so much for freedom.

And not sure what you mean with "few" people, the few Playstation 3/4/5 users? Juniper? OpnSense/Pfsense installations? Or the few Truenas/Freenas users?

>Or not something else enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP_bKvXkoC4

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#86

Post by nix23 »

pimeys wrote: post #66
fullstop wrote: post #11

Between the NUMA work, OpenZFS 2.0, and wireguard, I can't wait for 13.0 to be released.

And OPNsense basing their next version to this kernel, then having a kernel based wg in the best router distro is going to be so sweet.

OPNsense is based on HardenedBSD which is based on FreeBSD 12-STABLE ATM:

https://hardenedbsd.org/

But OPNsense is based on HBSD 11.2 ATM

>The latest release is based upon HardenedBSD 11.2

https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#87

Post by pimeys »

nix23 wrote: post #86
pimeys wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And OPNsense basing their next version to this kernel, then having a kernel based wg in the best router distro is going to be so sweet.

OPNsense is based on HardenedBSD which is based on FreeBSD 12-STABLE ATM: https://hardenedbsd.org/ But OPNsense is based on HBSD 11.2 ATM >The latest release is based upon HardenedBSD 11.2 https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/

It got just updated to version 12. Probably this year we can see a version based on the 13 kernel.

``` FreeBSD router.local 12.1-RELEASE-p12-HBSD FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p12-HBSD ```

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#88

Post by forty »

nix23 wrote: post #85
forty wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello, I'm genuinely curious: why did you implement it in FreeBSD rather than Linux? Isn't that kind of offload something that already exists in Linux? Or does something in the way Linux is implemented/designed that makes it impractical / impossible to implement as efficiently? Or is somehow Linux not secure enough for your use case? Or not something else enough? I'm asking because I'm always interested to know what…

>I cannot help being a bit sad that contribution like this will only benefit the few people that use FreeBSD Same could be said the other way around, the thing is Linux can implement it and even take the code, the other way is rather difficult....so much for freedom. And not sure what you mean with "few" people, the few Playstation 3/4/5 users? Juniper? OpnSense/Pfsense installations? Or the few Truenas/Freenas users…

I still expect the number to be pretty small compared to the number of Linux users, no matter how you define user (if playstation users counts as freebsd users, then I guess nearly everyone is a Linux user :) )

The point of the licence is a good point. Is the kind of code drewg123 is referring to regularly copied from BSD to Linux? (i understand it should be possible in this direction?).

Thanks for the video, looks like exactly what I was looking for, I will watch it later.

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#89

Post by [deleted] »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #30

I wish FreeBSD booted faster. I recall it took nearly a minute from turning my machine on (with an SSD and a recent Intel i5 processor) before I was prompted for my login credentials. It's little things like that which make the system feel a bit dated, at least to someone like me who is an outsider to FreeBSD but has used Linux for a decade. I also wished FreeBSD needed less configuration to use as a desktop (see htt…

[deleted]

Re: FreeBSD 13.0 Beta1 Now Available

#90

Post by 0mp »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #30

I wish FreeBSD booted faster. I recall it took nearly a minute from turning my machine on (with an SSD and a recent Intel i5 processor) before I was prompted for my login credentials. It's little things like that which make the system feel a bit dated, at least to someone like me who is an outsider to FreeBSD but has used Linux for a decade. I also wished FreeBSD needed less configuration to use as a desktop (see htt…

I'm running FreeBSD on T480 and after I configured the audio backend in Firefox (one variable in about:config) and the webcamd driver (2 lines in rc.conf) I can do video calls just fine. Both Jitsi and Zoom work as expected.
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