Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is advocating for violation of human rights not a bannable offense?
Please explain how quarantine violates human rights, I would love to hear this.
Have you read the declaration on human rights?
Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
81–90 of 94 posts
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#82I get it, but you've made it 11 months already, case counts are falling rapidly, spring is coming, and people getting vaccinated will drive down new cases even more. Calm down and wait another month or two.
Also 'a month or two' ?
This is not in line with any projections.
In the US it's around summertime.
In Canada, it was 'by end of summer' - and now - it's 'anyone who wants a vaccine by end of 2021'.
And that's without the vaccine delays which have flatlined the roll-out, meaning, that timeline is now optimistic.
There is a material chance that many segments won't get vaccinated until way into the fall in Canada, supposedly a '1st nation' which is cause for revolutionary rethink of the incompetence of bureaucracy in face of an existential problem.
The opportunity cost of: 'lives lost, living conditions suppressed, massive economic damage' of the ongoing situation imply we should have been spending billions to refactor production sites and build out supply chains long before vaccine trials were complete. Even with the distinct likelihood that most vaccines wouldn't work or be deemed unsafe, it would still have made sense to at least ramp up manufacturing many months ago. Several billion dollars 'wasted' towards bad vaccines only to get a single good one, is orders of magnitude less than the 'wasted' lives and billions faced by many months delay in roll out.
It's a very simple calculation actually - spend a billion today to ramp up early, most of which might be wasted - to save 10 billion tomorrow in terms of early vaccination rollout.
In times of crisis, the press becomes a little bit propagandistic - what everyone is suppressing right now (because we plebes can't fathom to see it) is that governments around the world are spending the equivalent of an entire generation of deficit just in a few months. Frankly, the Capitol Hill Riots were a giant distraction from the severe underlying reality.
In that context, the speed and efficiency of the roll out is exceedingly consequential.
These are generational issues, this is our 'World War', the stuff that will define our era, and be studied for decades.
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
This zombie they're lying about their numbers! cope needs to die. Look at Taiwan. Look at Korea. Both of them handled the virus fairly well, with much less extreme measures, and have good relations with the US so you have no reason to doubt their numbers.
Both Taiwan and South Korea's values are in direct contrast with what we call Western Values. Violating the right to privacy is one of them. South Korea's spying on its citizens is second only to China.
Feeding grandma into the woodchipper as I somehow happily dream that the US government doesn't have its populace under total digital surveillance
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand your point, but the strategy you're describing is exactly what the author is frustrated by. Maryland doesn't have "stupid rules about who is allowed to get an appointment", and all doses which become available are quickly claimed - as a consequence, if she wants to claim a dose for her parents, she has to run around at odd hours checking with everyone who might have new availability. Until we have enough…
As a Maryland resident, I certainly feel we have "stupid rules about who is allowed to get an appointment" at a statewide level AND we've got a bunch of providers interpreting those stupid rules in inconsistent and arbitrary ways. My doctor's office has apparently received some vaccines but are only vaccinating people in Group 1A because they feel that's the most important. But the governor claims we've moved into Gr…
It's roughshod but very reasonable.
The US is vaccinating fast.
There is a 'rough sequence' that people should be following.
Some gears in the system will be off, and some individuals will act poorly - but that's ok, it doesn't need to be perfect.
Speed of delivery probably takes preference over secondary quibbles about order of priority, as long as there roughly is one.
Take solace in the fact the US is way ahead of other nations, and thank God, because the amount of 'anti lockdown' populism in the US I feel has been considerably higher than in most other places and I don't think the population could handle any more lockdowns or more assertive measures without some very ugly populism in the streets.
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#85I get it, but you've made it 11 months already, case counts are falling rapidly, spring is coming, and people getting vaccinated will drive down new cases even more. Calm down and wait another month or two.
Also 'a month or two' ? This is not in line with any projections. In the US it's around summertime. In Canada, it was 'by end of summer' - and now - it's 'anyone who wants a vaccine by end of 2021'. And that's without the vaccine delays which have flatlined the roll-out, meaning, that timeline is now optimistic. There is a material chance that many segments won't get vaccinated until way into the fall in Canada, supp…
> Also 'a month or two' ?
> This is not in line with any projections.
Sorry, I meant a month or two for someone 65 or older. Most of the story's gripes were among that group; outside of those with compromised immune systems or preexisting conditions, people seem resigned to waiting 4+ months.
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a Maryland resident, I certainly feel we have "stupid rules about who is allowed to get an appointment" at a statewide level AND we've got a bunch of providers interpreting those stupid rules in inconsistent and arbitrary ways. My doctor's office has apparently received some vaccines but are only vaccinating people in Group 1A because they feel that's the most important. But the governor claims we've moved into Gr…
It's roughshod but very reasonable. The US is vaccinating fast. There is a 'rough sequence' that people should be following. Some gears in the system will be off, and some individuals will act poorly - but that's ok, it doesn't need to be perfect. Speed of delivery probably takes preference over secondary quibbles about order of priority, as long as there roughly is one. Take solace in the fact the US is way ahead of…
> the amount of 'anti lockdown' populism in the US I feel has been considerably higher than in most other places
Herd immunity by July, one way or another.
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> governments have handed virtually all authority over lifting lockdown to their health ministers This does worry me, but in Europe and the US, the consensus seems to be that it's not possible to stop it, so settle on some sort of a "live with it" strategy. During the fall, I remember Europeans looking at the US and saying "they just needed a real lockdown." As winter came and case counts rose again in Europe, there…
You are right there wasn't much appetite for the hardest degree of lockdowns, but what Europe got instead is bad enough. Borders closed in spite of Schengen, putting a stop to things like cross-border relationships and the sort of everyday interaction between European peoples that staves off nationalisms. Then you have closure of restaurants, concert halls, etc. which has led to a wave of bankrupcies, and governments…
"Listen to the epidemiologists" has been some of the worst messaging through all of this because they've never actually stopped a pandemic before (other than smallpox), and they don't necessarily understand the politics, economics, psychology, or legality of their ideas.
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#88Legitimately humorous how the article associates America's failure with a communist distribution system, when communist countries worldwide have completely knocked their coronavirus response out of the park - so much so that it is considered unfair to compare America's atrocious coronavirus response with these countries instead of its "cohort" of countries failing just as badly, like the UK.
No one disputes that authoritarian governments do some things better. Even the Romans built it into their republic: they could appoint a tyrant during wartime to make quick decisions before returning power to the senate. It's incomplete (to the point of being irrelevant) to say that communists did Covid response better and not to mention all the other things they do worse. Given the choice, I'd still take a 10x worse…
> they could appoint a tyrant during wartime to make quick decisions before returning power to the senate.
That's the entire point - the fact that many contemporary liberal societies can no longer use such tools is worth introspection. Many countries had quarantine act or equivalent emergency power structure designed for pandemics, but what good are they if current political climate make them infeasible. This overlooks the fact that harsh authoritarian responses have been in line with epidemic response playbooks drafted by the CDC. It was what was expected.
The myopia is thinking this is a choice between authoritarianism and liberalism, but between society where you can rely on leadership to do difficult things for the greater good versus one that cannot.
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d love to hear your reasoning and alternatives.
Throw the computer system out the window onto the car of the guy who thought spending time and resources on this was a good idea. All we care about is how many people were vaccinated, and how many doses are thrown out before use. Obviously we care about how many are vaccinated. Why do we care how many are thrown out? To show where and how we failed. We didn’t get SARS. This is our SARS moment, but more importantly, w…
> Trying to keep a perfect record of where every single dose is in the country rather than just injecting them in anyone who wants a vaccine is expensive overhead and wasted effort.
I hear this and I also think there’s value in mechanisms preventing abuse at scale.
Also, bean counters gonna bean count and they happen to allocate resources so bean counting is always a priority. That’s a human / perspective issue built into the system of prioritizing bean counting.
Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's roughshod but very reasonable. The US is vaccinating fast. There is a 'rough sequence' that people should be following. Some gears in the system will be off, and some individuals will act poorly - but that's ok, it doesn't need to be perfect. Speed of delivery probably takes preference over secondary quibbles about order of priority, as long as there roughly is one. Take solace in the fact the US is way ahead of…
> the amount of 'anti lockdown' populism in the US I feel has been considerably higher than in most other places Herd immunity by July, one way or another.
I'm afraid that is the 'effective crowd sentiment' in the USA and frankly, that's a lot of dead people.
I feel that many areas will try to 'rush back to business' once most 65+ are vaccinated and just won't care much beyond that.
I read all sorts of blogs/comments around various news publications, trying to 'get a pulse' and it's a little disturbing to read a lot of comments from people who seem to think that 1-2% of US population 'written off' is just fine from their perspective.