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B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

sfgate.com

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Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#81

Post by tjalfi »

systemvoltage wrote: post #68
tjalfi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proposition 47[0] in 2014 substantially reduced the penalties for shoplifting, grand theft, forgery, fraud, and other crimes. Stealing It would be surprising if this didn't lead to a substantial increase in the crime rate. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

Since when is even stealing anything excusable? Stealing $300 purse or $30000 car is exactly the same thing morally. The value of the item is in some ways orthogonal. Theft should be punished in the strongest forms possible so no one even thinks about doing it. Minimum 1 year in prison for stealing anything . Convince me otherwise.

One problem with this is that most cases don't go to trial and miscarriages of justice are a regular occurrence.

Many cases 90+% ([0], [1]) are plea-bargained out, e.g. the accused couldn't afford representation, the public defender takes the offer, etc.

Some of these people were innocent but serving a year in prison will make it hard for them to rebuild their lives.

[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/prisons-are-packed-bec...

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/innocen...

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#82

Post by cammikebrown »

officialchicken wrote: post #77
ilaksh wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Playas de Tijuana, Mexico. Occasionally it smells bad, but not usually, and in my neighborhood we have a strong police presence. Also living a block from the beach only costs $500. And on Mondays there is a market on the street right in front of the apartment. I rarely see any homeless people. The dogs and barbed wire are usually enough to prevent most robberies as long as you don't park a really nice car o…

There are so many of these kinds of locations in Spain, it's hard to list. For $600/mo (2 BR apt/condo), sandwiched between Playa de Las Canteras and Playa de Alcavaneras. And several orders of magnitude safer than US/MX, in terms of crimes per capita.

I'd love to move to Spain, and I'd learn Spanish, but as an American, how do I move there without getting deported?

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#83

Post by sundaeofshock »

conanbatt wrote: post #76
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you. But... Let's say someone steals a $300 purse or a $30000 car. Nobody needs either a $300 purse or a $30000 car. But let's say someone steals $10 of food from a grocery store. They may legitimately need that. (Or they may just have poor self-control.) If someone legitimately needs food, I could bend my mind far enough to call that "excusable".

I think so too, and it is also defensible for the store owner to protect his 10$ with 0.50 cent shotgun shells.

Are you suggesting that stealing $10 worth of food is an executable offense?

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#84

Post by vmception »

I had a guess it would be Hayes Valley.

Not because there are few b8ta stores but because there is no way that will continue to be considered a nice neighborhood

For months after the first lockdown, the place practically had a favela setup across $6500/mo rental units until someone tricked business owners in signing a petition to summon the police to come with clubs. The police did come and clear it out.

And the Walgreens being continually emptied out despite not being on the main Market St or other typically decrepit neighborhoods was a sign that people would not ignore the place anymore

Pretty much every currently “nice neighborhood” was super sketch during the time periods of SF that people seem to reminisce about

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#85

Post by ALittleLight »

kevrc wrote: post #78
ALittleLight wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's part of it. Imagine doing demanding or demeaning labor all day and making a tenth of what the guy spending 7-8 hours a day typing on a computer and playing Ping Pong makes. That would certainly seem unfair to me. Can't afford nice stuff, but you could take it... On top of that, SF refuses to punish crimes like theft, so...

I can assure you, the people who are robbing electronics stores are not the ones serving lattes or driving ubers. SF has a huge issue with career criminals. And it’s easy to be one. I have never seen such blatant drug dealing and robbery in my life, and I have lived in supposedly “dangerous” cities outside of the US.

Maybe they are drug addicts and criminals because they don't want to do hard work for low pay.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#86

Post by nextos »

cammikebrown wrote: post #82
officialchicken wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many of these kinds of locations in Spain, it's hard to list. For $600/mo (2 BR apt/condo), sandwiched between Playa de Las Canteras and Playa de Alcavaneras. And several orders of magnitude safer than US/MX, in terms of crimes per capita.

I'd love to move to Spain, and I'd learn Spanish, but as an American, how do I move there without getting deported?

Getting a visa is not that hard. Spain is also really relaxed about immigration.

If you are in the tech industry, many startups and big companies (e.g. Facebook, Google) have offices in Madrid and Barcelona.

If you wanna do remote work, the Canary Islands might be soon offering a special visa and a low tax regime.

You could also try a digital nomad lifestyle. If you return to the US every now and then, it should be fine.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#87

Post by mc32 »

notyourday wrote: post #79
mc32 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also the way SF deals with crime. Daly City borders SF and they don’t suffer these crimes at the same rate. Their prosecutors prosecute. They don’t play the restorative justice game —which SF pushes on victims.

"If we could just teach prisoners to code and stop with this retribution nonsense" as so many HNers pontificated a few hours ago...

Unfortunately people want quick-fix solutions that mollify their conscience too. It's become ideological.

In SF the climate is such that officers only pursue the most egregious cases where they think their work will have results. They know the DA will pull punches and drag their feet and drop lesser cases so they don't even bother. The DA often times pushes the victim to agree to restorative justice. It's not a deterrent.

Restorative Justice can work in some special cases. We can work to make prisoners more ready for the workforce when they get out. But we need lots of support in the way of social pressure and also some brainwashing/reconditioning. Most criminals will not want to go through the effort of turning things around, unless you change them via stick and carrot. It's hard to change course. It's hard to change course for anybody.

Now, some people are salvageable. We have to get better at spotting potential and providing tools and support for those people who want to change for the better.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#88

Post by mensetmanusman »

systemvoltage wrote: post #68
tjalfi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proposition 47[0] in 2014 substantially reduced the penalties for shoplifting, grand theft, forgery, fraud, and other crimes. Stealing It would be surprising if this didn't lead to a substantial increase in the crime rate. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

Since when is even stealing anything excusable? Stealing $300 purse or $30000 car is exactly the same thing morally. The value of the item is in some ways orthogonal. Theft should be punished in the strongest forms possible so no one even thinks about doing it. Minimum 1 year in prison for stealing anything . Convince me otherwise.

It costs $50k to house someone for a year.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#89

Post by proc0 »

liaukovv wrote: post #29
gumby wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really travel any kind of distance to commit crimes? I thought that most crimes were committed in one's own neighborhood, then nearby ones.

That would be a very bad tactic In fact touring crime seems like a better approach, you commit a bunch of crimes in a city and move on, never to be seen there again

Same difference, the city becomes a honeypot because authorities decided it was a good idea to advertise their intentions.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#90

Post by mensetmanusman »

ALittleLight wrote: post #85
kevrc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you, the people who are robbing electronics stores are not the ones serving lattes or driving ubers. SF has a huge issue with career criminals. And it’s easy to be one. I have never seen such blatant drug dealing and robbery in my life, and I have lived in supposedly “dangerous” cities outside of the US.

Maybe they are drug addicts and criminals because they don't want to do hard work for low pay.

Assume that is true, what do you do when they pull a gun, pay them more?
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