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Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

nytimes.com

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Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#81
post #18

https://inrupt.com/ Is the startup. Unfortunately at the bottom is a copyright notice. Nothing is going to “put people in control of their personal data” as long as we have copyright. Otherwise lots of your “personal data” will remained locked up with corporations.

Exactly backwards. Copyright is control of data.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#82
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Brad Fitzpatrick's Perkeep/Camlistore.

Does it have analytics tools or pluggable apps?

I don't know. I'd venture a guess of "no" on pluggable apps. It does have a plugin-like architecture with e.g. adapters for Twitter. I've never used it, only seen it in action. It's an activity and data tracker written to serve Brad Fitzpatrick's personal needs. When he was still at Google, he was paying someone to hack on it and maintain it. It has some rudimentary "analytics" insofar as there are various ways to present the data stored in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlAU_da_U4s

https://perkeep.org/doc/overview

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what exactly would they have to add to HTML?

They don't really have to add anything to HTML. I just put it that way to express the idea of the "Like" button being a page element available anywhere on the web, rather than only inside a walled garden. What is really required is a database protocol for tracking Likes, or "a client/server API for creating, updating, and deleting content, as well as a federated server-to-server API for delivering notifications and c…

> FB customers could be bridged into the new federated universe with translators that mirror content from FB into the new ecosystem.

I cannot imagine FB agreeing to such translators voluntarily.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#85
post #18

https://inrupt.com/ Is the startup. Unfortunately at the bottom is a copyright notice. Nothing is going to “put people in control of their personal data” as long as we have copyright. Otherwise lots of your “personal data” will remained locked up with corporations.

Exactly backwards. Copyright is control of data.

Nope.

You do not have control of your data when you have no idea or control over the software and hardware that you store your data on. A situation that will never change as long as we have #ImaginaryPropertyLaws.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#86
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't really have to add anything to HTML. I just put it that way to express the idea of the "Like" button being a page element available anywhere on the web, rather than only inside a walled garden. What is really required is a database protocol for tracking Likes, or "a client/server API for creating, updating, and deleting content, as well as a federated server-to-server API for delivering notifications and c…

> FB customers could be bridged into the new federated universe with translators that mirror content from FB into the new ecosystem. I cannot imagine FB agreeing to such translators voluntarily.

Right. It would take some act of compulsion to make them comply, or some clever hack to automate scraping and mirroring. While most of the customers accept FB's legitimacy, they still rule, and the effort to hack or legislate might not obviously pay dividends.

Will this last forever, or go the way of MySpace?

FB appears to be more robust than MySpace because of the inertial qualities of its comprehensive membership, but that may be changing.

2020 is the year "surveillance capitalism" entered the popular lexicon, and 2021 has kicked off with an ugliness that could well be transformative. If there is a revolution, new tools, infrastructure, and rules are required to establish new social media platform that avoids the pitfalls of the old.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#87
I had this idea in the early 90s that so much data was being and would in the future be collected about us, that citizens should be able to incorporate into abstract entities that served as their data proxies and to which commercial entities would attach their tracking. So Corp UUID xyz bought gas at an Amaco station, not Mr John Doe.

I gave up on this idea as the www form of internet arrived and e-commerce, adserve, cookies, and all other modern forms of surveillance capitalism flourished.

The idea that you can somehow control someone’s observation of your activities, and that you are entitled to privacy, or obscurity, or to be hidden, or forgotten, I realized ( or came to think ) was quixotic and antisocial.

It is a conflicted and torturous path to take, because Many real abuses occur and a lot of harm is done with data that is collected and analyzed.

I think a statutory right to partake in ownership of your data sounds sensible, but I think it too is unworkable and going in the wrong direction - to scarcity, fear, and the complement of fear is aggression.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#88

This is a bit of a tangent, but I think there's a market for a "self-tracker" data hub of sorts. My half-baked idea is that it'd run locally and ingest my activity of all sorts -- privately, securely, individually -- to help inform my personal knowledge base. Along the lines of Readwise but broader and deeper, and with analytics....

Quantified life was the rage here right before “mindfulness for profit”

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#89
post #26

We should simply outlaw most privacy-invasive behavior. People will still demand news, social-media etc, but the payment will be different. Technology cannot and must not solve everything.

I don’t think privacy is tenable. I think we could eventually Physically engineer ourselves to be more cooperative and less driven to harm others. This is achievable, but privacy is not stable, is unnatural, and because it is so hard to come by, striving for it creates in my opinion needless scarcity.

Trying to avoid harming others is also not tenable, but a policy of avoiding harm is capable of being followed with soft penalties, and I think neuroticism can be avoided. I think striving for privacy and it’s preservation is inherently neurotic, though it can be short term successful policy in the presence of others who would harm, exploit, or subjugate us.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wants to put people in control of their personal data

#90
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it have analytics tools or pluggable apps?

I don't know. I'd venture a guess of "no" on pluggable apps . It does have a plugin-like architecture with e.g. adapters for Twitter. I've never used it, only seen it in action. It's an activity and data tracker written to serve Brad Fitzpatrick's personal needs. When he was still at Google, he was paying someone to hack on it and maintain it. It has some rudimentary "analytics" insofar as there are various ways to p…

Whoah. Thanks so much! From https://perkeep.org/doc/overview :

> "The project began because I wanted to…

… store all my stuff forever, not worrying about deleting, or losing stuff.

… save stuff easily, and without categorizing it or choosing a location whenever I save it. I just want a data dumptruck that I can throw stuff at whenever.

… never lose anything because nothing can be overwritten (all blobs are content-addressable), and there’s no delete support. (optional garbage collection coming later)

be able to search for anything I once stored.

be able to browse and visualize stuff I’ve stored.

… not always be forced into a POSIX-y filesystem model. That involves thinking of where to put stuff, and most the time I don’t even want filenames. If I take a bunch of photos, those don’t have filenames (or not good ones, and not unique). They just exist. They don’t need a directory or a name. Likewise with blog posts, comments, likes, bookmarks, etc. They’re just objects.

… have a POSIX-y filesystem when I want one. And it should all be logically available on my tiny laptop’s SSD disk, even if my laptop’s disk is miniscule compared to my entire repo. That is, there should actually be a caching virtual filesystem, not a daemon running rsync in the background. If I have to have a complete copy of my data locally, or I have to “choose which folders” to sync, that’s broken.

… be able to synthesize POSIX-y filesystems from search queries over my higher-level objects. e.g. a “recent” directory of recent photos from my Android phone (this all works already in 0.1)

Not write another CMS system, ever. Perkeep should be able to store and model any type of content, so it can just be a backend for other apps.

… have backups of all my social network content I created daily on other people’s servers, to protect myself if my account is hijacked, the company goes evil, changes ownership, or goes out of business.

… have both a web UI and command-line tools, as well as a FUSE filesystem.

… be in control of my data, but also still be able to utilize big companies’ infrastructure cloud products if desired.

… be able to share content with both technical and non-technical friends.

Most of this works as of the 0.1 release, and the rest and more is in progress."

IOW, exactly what I was looking for. Sometimes I'm reminded why I still love the internet.

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