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Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

nytimes.com

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Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#81

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Steltek wrote: post #79
walls wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identifying terrorists is a positive outcome.

I love the back and forth of terminology ("rioter" vs "terrorist" vs "attacker") because I think that's the key to this discussion. The military is given access to dramatically more advanced weapons and technology than police. When the US has suffered such an obviously violent and direct attack (vs planning or "alleged"), is that not a reason to loosen the restraints? However, it's hard to put the genie back in the b…

> I love the back and forth of terminology ("rioter" vs "terrorist" vs "attacker")

There was a mix of terrorists, insurrectionists, rioters, hooligans and protesters in the crowd. Those who entered the Capitol were no longer protesters. Those damaging or stealing property were more than hooligans. Those aiming to disrupt the election count were more than rioters. And those with aims on harming members of Congress were more than incompetent insurrectionists.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#82

Post by JumpCrisscross »

LatteLazy wrote: post #27
rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

Is it that different to wanted posters or publishing cctv of a crime? I get why people don't want facial recognition cameras on every street corner but using it to identify people from pics is a different activity... Edit: I completely agree there is nothing special about this case. No exigent circumstances.

> Is it that different to wanted posters or publishing cctv of a crime?

I think so. That mechanism is judicially auditable. The AI is not. We should not be arresting people based on the output of an unauditable mechanism.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#83

Post by ineedasername »

I don't understand the beard trend. (Pictured in the article) It seems like a huge portion of anti-government and/or ardent President Trump supporters have those big untrimmed beards.

Is it regional based on where many such supporters live? I certainly don't see any ideological link to untrimmed beards, so it must be some other co-occuring factor.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#84

Post by siruncledrew »

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

With Clearview's history in mind, would people rather live in world with or without facial recognition being used in public?

What are the bounds for such technology and/or companies like Clearview?

Are there quality of life differences in places where facial recognition crime technology is used vs not used?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#85

Post by ineedasername »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81
Steltek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the back and forth of terminology ("rioter" vs "terrorist" vs "attacker") because I think that's the key to this discussion. The military is given access to dramatically more advanced weapons and technology than police. When the US has suffered such an obviously violent and direct attack (vs planning or "alleged"), is that not a reason to loosen the restraints? However, it's hard to put the genie back in the b…

> I love the back and forth of terminology ("rioter" vs "terrorist" vs "attacker") There was a mix of terrorists, insurrectionists, rioters, hooligans and protesters in the crowd. Those who entered the Capitol were no longer protesters. Those damaging or stealing property were more than hooligans. Those aiming to disrupt the election count were more than rioters. And those with aims on harming members of Congress wer…

I think those are useful distinctions. Not everyone in that crowd was rioting. This was an important distinction I feel was lost during the BLM protests as well: Any given media narrative wanted to paint the people involved as all one thing or another.

The truth is it's all mixed. I look at this also as a failure for a movement to generate leaders with a clear strategic vision that in turn guides participants with consistent boundaries. When, instead, the feeling is simply "anger" without a specific plan for channeling it usefully, you get people doing their own thing, others following along, etc.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#86

Post by iknowstuff »

ineedasername wrote: post #83

I don't understand the beard trend. (Pictured in the article) It seems like a huge portion of anti-government and/or ardent President Trump supporters have those big untrimmed beards. Is it regional based on where many such supporters live? I certainly don't see any ideological link to untrimmed beards, so it must be some other co-occuring factor.

Haha good point. Violence, guns, big trucks and beards are their expressions of masculinity. Conservatism is big on clear division of gender roles, patriarchy and the role of a strong man as the head of the family. IANAP, but there's probably a link there.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#87

Post by newguy1234 »

What exactly do people expect to happen by identifying the capitol rioters?

Okay they get arrested, maybe charged with a crime. Others will get doxxed and most will lose their jobs. They'll become social outcasts.

Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by society and so on?

This will end up having very big unintended consequences.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#88

Post by handmodel »

newguy1234 wrote: post #87

What exactly do people expect to happen by identifying the capitol rioters? Okay they get arrested, maybe charged with a crime. Others will get doxxed and most will lose their jobs. They'll become social outcasts. Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by society and so on? This will end up having very big unintended consequences.

Yes. They tried to destroy the Capitol and capture elected officials. If you don't arrest them now then there will just be even more violent MAGA riots in the immediate future.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#89

Post by kristofferR »

newguy1234 wrote: post #87

What exactly do people expect to happen by identifying the capitol rioters? Okay they get arrested, maybe charged with a crime. Others will get doxxed and most will lose their jobs. They'll become social outcasts. Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by society and so on? This will end up having very big unintended consequences.

You could say that about every criminal though.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#90

Post by newguy1234 »

handmodel wrote: post #88
newguy1234 wrote: post #87

What exactly do people expect to happen by identifying the capitol rioters? Okay they get arrested, maybe charged with a crime. Others will get doxxed and most will lose their jobs. They'll become social outcasts. Do you really want a bunch of very angry people to effectively be pushed into a corner, demonized by society and so on? This will end up having very big unintended consequences.

Yes. They tried to destroy the Capitol and capture elected officials. If you don't arrest them now then there will just be even more violent MAGA riots in the immediate future.

How long are we going to lock them up? How many people are we going to lock up?

My understanding was that there was 100k+ people in attendance at this rally and thousands of people were in the capitol building itself.

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