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Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

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Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#81

Post by lldbg »

runamok wrote: post #55
lldbg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have. The efficacy estimate was based on roughly ~200 confirmed cases, which your link confirms for the Pfizer vaccine.

The relevant passage is below. Basically it's a funnel, so It takes testing a large amount of people to tease out just a handful of infections. 162 cases for placebo vs. 8 in the vaccine group. Analysis of the data indicates a vaccine efficacy rate of 95% (p<0.0001) in participants without prior SARS-CoV-2 infection (first primary objective) and also in participants with and without prior SARS-CoV-2 infection (second…

To be clear, I am using the example of the current vaccines to prove the point that N=200 allows statistical inferences to be drawn.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#82

Post by BlueTemplar »

Herodotus38 wrote: post #56
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #4

To be clear, this isn't saying that any anti-depressant is effective for COVID. It appears to be a unique side-effect of Fluvoxamine. There are several existing drugs which have been found to have modulatory effects on early COVID infections. The key word here is "early", as most of them only have a significant impact before the infection gets out of control. Keep in mind that Hydroxychloroquine is one of the existin…

“ Keep in mind that Hydroxychloroquine is one of the existing drugs discovered to have some effect on early infections, but it clearly failed to have much impact on late-stage infections” Do you mind sharing your evidence that HCQ helps with early infections? Because I know many studies that showed no benefit, for example: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2016638 That is one of many studies.

There's a bunch of very professional-looking websites claiming the effectiveness of HCQ, especially early on :

https://hcqtrial.com/

https://hcqmeta.com/

(And now https://c19study.com/ ?)

Sadly, I only have been able to find this as criticism :

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hcqtrial-com-astroturf-and-...

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#83

Post by Herodotus38 »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #82
Herodotus38 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Keep in mind that Hydroxychloroquine is one of the existing drugs discovered to have some effect on early infections, but it clearly failed to have much impact on late-stage infections” Do you mind sharing your evidence that HCQ helps with early infections? Because I know many studies that showed no benefit, for example: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2016638 That is one of many studies.

There's a bunch of very professional-looking websites claiming the effectiveness of HCQ, especially early on : https://hcqtrial.com/ https://hcqmeta.com/ (And now https://c19study.com/ ?) Sadly, I only have been able to find this as criticism : https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hcqtrial-com-astroturf-and-...

EDIT: Also note that those links are all the run by the same group, the FAQs are the same.

Consider reading the IDSA (Infectious Disease Society of America) guidelines. They get updated fairly regularly and are composed of the boots on the ground infectious disease specialist physicians who are trying to help people.

https://www.idsociety.org/practice-guideline/covid-19-guidel...

Unfortunately, HCQ became politicized which added a bunch of noise. There are a lot of people who are invested in being right for various reasons rather than trying to find the truth, and many of these websites are biased.

For what it's worth, I am a physician who prescribed HCQ to patients in March (with appropriate informed consent from pts/families) when he had no other idea of treatment options based on the original study which purported to show decreased viral load. It became obvious that it didn't matter whether patients got it or not in my experience (some got better and some died whether or not they got it), numerous studies then confirmed this. Most if not all hospitals were trying it with the first wave back in Jan-March and then we stopped using it when data came out that it didn't change anything. Then, things got crazy because it became promoted by certain politicians (this happened when any physician with experience had already realized it was a placebo) AND then there was a big scandal where a paper was published showing increased mortality that based on falsified data and later retracted.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#84

Post by throwaway2245 »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #82
Herodotus38 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Keep in mind that Hydroxychloroquine is one of the existing drugs discovered to have some effect on early infections, but it clearly failed to have much impact on late-stage infections” Do you mind sharing your evidence that HCQ helps with early infections? Because I know many studies that showed no benefit, for example: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2016638 That is one of many studies.

There's a bunch of very professional-looking websites claiming the effectiveness of HCQ, especially early on : https://hcqtrial.com/ https://hcqmeta.com/ (And now https://c19study.com/ ?) Sadly, I only have been able to find this as criticism : https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hcqtrial-com-astroturf-and-...

The addresses of those websites do not make them look very professional, in my judgement.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#85

Post by garmaine »

Herodotus38 wrote: post #56
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #4

To be clear, this isn't saying that any anti-depressant is effective for COVID. It appears to be a unique side-effect of Fluvoxamine. There are several existing drugs which have been found to have modulatory effects on early COVID infections. The key word here is "early", as most of them only have a significant impact before the infection gets out of control. Keep in mind that Hydroxychloroquine is one of the existin…

“ Keep in mind that Hydroxychloroquine is one of the existing drugs discovered to have some effect on early infections, but it clearly failed to have much impact on late-stage infections” Do you mind sharing your evidence that HCQ helps with early infections? Because I know many studies that showed no benefit, for example: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2016638 That is one of many studies.

The proposed mechanism for HCQ (zinc affinity) implies that it would be most effective if taken before the onset of symptoms, perhaps even before viral load is high enough to test positive. Obviously this makes it challenging to do a study. Nearly all studies that I’m aware of are initiated on patients that are already showing symptoms, because the patients are enrolled at the hospital, and few have the necessary zinc supplication. The expectation is that these studies would show little benefit, and indeed that is the case.

There remains no studies with large sample sizes done as far as I know with HCQ+zinc given as a prophylactic measure immediately upon first exposure.

EDIT: It's also worth mentioning that this isn't some crank theory about COVID. It is well known that zinc inhibits replication of RNA virus, giving the immune system more time to respond. I used to get colds 5-6 times a year, and the flu almost every year. When I learned about this effect zinc has, I started taking mega doses of zinc upon exposure, whether I'm close to someone known to be sick, flying through airports, or just caught in cold weather. I have not had cold or flu symptoms since I started this regimen about 2 years ago. Of course that is just an anecdote. There are, IIRC, observational studies showing this effect across larger populations.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#86

Post by addicted »

Herodotus38 wrote: post #83
BlueTemplar wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a bunch of very professional-looking websites claiming the effectiveness of HCQ, especially early on : https://hcqtrial.com/ https://hcqmeta.com/ (And now https://c19study.com/ ?) Sadly, I only have been able to find this as criticism : https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hcqtrial-com-astroturf-and-...

EDIT: Also note that those links are all the run by the same group, the FAQs are the same. Consider reading the IDSA (Infectious Disease Society of America) guidelines. They get updated fairly regularly and are composed of the boots on the ground infectious disease specialist physicians who are trying to help people. https://www.idsociety.org/practice-guideline/covid-19-guidel... Unfortunately, HCQ became politicized…

What sucks most is that there are several medicines that have found to have a positive effect that got drowned in the HCQ noise.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#87

Post by zyxzevn »

LatteLazy wrote: post #39

Tiny study, just like chloroquine that is somehow still being talked about... >Findings In this randomized trial that included 152 adult outpatients with confirmed COVID-19 and symptom onset within 7 days, clinical deterioration occurred in 0 patients treated with fluvoxamine vs 6 (8.3%) patients treated with placebo over 15 days, a difference that was statistically significant. It honestly worries me how quick peopl…

For all relevant studies with 10,000 or more patients and the correct treatment protocols. See: http://www.hcqlost.com

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#89

Post by Herodotus38 »

addicted wrote: post #86
Herodotus38 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Also note that those links are all the run by the same group, the FAQs are the same. Consider reading the IDSA (Infectious Disease Society of America) guidelines. They get updated fairly regularly and are composed of the boots on the ground infectious disease specialist physicians who are trying to help people. https://www.idsociety.org/practice-guideline/covid-19-guidel... Unfortunately, HCQ became politicized…

What sucks most is that there are several medicines that have found to have a positive effect that got drowned in the HCQ noise.

There are a lot of potential medications that are being studied and it's good to remember that we have to do good science to know what we are doing. So far, only steroids (specifically dexamethasone) has shown a mortality reduction. Remdesivir maybe decreases length of stay in the hospital.

Currently beside fluvoxamine, there is research being done on colchicine (usually used for gout), ivermectin (controversial because the main people promoting it believe so strongly in it that they flat out say on their website it is unethical to perform randomized control trials to study it at this point, which is bonkers), various vitamins have been proposed.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#90

Post by LatteLazy »

zyxzevn wrote: post #87
LatteLazy wrote: post #39

Tiny study, just like chloroquine that is somehow still being talked about... >Findings In this randomized trial that included 152 adult outpatients with confirmed COVID-19 and symptom onset within 7 days, clinical deterioration occurred in 0 patients treated with fluvoxamine vs 6 (8.3%) patients treated with placebo over 15 days, a difference that was statistically significant. It honestly worries me how quick peopl…

For all relevant studies with 10,000 or more patients and the correct treatment protocols. See: http://www.hcqlost.com

Respectfully, that's just a counter. It links to another hcq*.com site. That seems to cherry pick results.

Don't get me wrong, this whole thing is a fucking mess.

I haven't seen a reliable study that shows HCQ is effective. I'd be happy to see one of you have one? Given the attention paid to this molecule, there should be some nice, randomised control trials with large n numbers.

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