Poll: Switching from WhatsApp • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#81

Post by lrvick » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:01 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #40

erinnh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are annoyed that the end-to-end encryption isnt on by default. You have to enable it yourself if you want to use it. I agree its a downgrade in security. But I dont agree with it being a downgrade in privacy.

By default anyone at telegram can read your messages. By default, nobody at Facebook can read your WhatsApp messages. Telegram is a privacy downgrade here.

Facebook could push an update tomorrow that subtly modifies the RNG in a very difficult to detect way that allows them to easily brute force all messages.

No published source code or alternative implementations so it may take months of RE to notice if it is ever noticed at all.

If only a single party with no accountability controls your encryption keys with binaries they compiled from code they wrote that no one else can practically review with an undocumented protocol they can silently change or backdoor at any time, it is not end to end encryption. It is marketing.

I hate and refuse to use Telegram like all centralized chat services and feel it is hostile to freedom, privacy, and security but unlike Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage and others Telegram at -least- lets independent third parties like F-droid compile and distribute binaries offering accountability for their E2E claims.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#82

Post by ddevault » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:01 PM UTC

IRC. IRC has been around for the rise and fall of everything else on your list, and a dozen more that we've already forgotten. I have used IRC for my entire life and I see no reason to switch.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#83

Post by lucideer » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:01 PM UTC

aceelric wrote: post #11

polote wrote: post #8

What's next ? What happens when Signal is bought by Microsoft and Discord is bought by Google ?

Signal can't be bought. They're a non-profit org

There are many things that can happen to a non-profit that can change the way they provide software or a service. Apart from a sale being possible (albeit with regulator approval), a non-profit could split (see MozillaCorp), or simply act against its own stated interest due to internal politics (see PIR).

Or the change could be smaller such as the non-profit changing focus and transferring one of it's products to another entity. e.g. Signal could hypothetically pivot to focus on crypto lib dev/maintenance and transfer the messaging service maintenance to another org.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#84

Post by approxim8ion » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:01 PM UTC

damidekronik wrote: post #13

approxim8ion wrote: post #3

Telegram is a downgrade in terms of both security and privacy. Just leaving the comment for people who consider it. It's an excellent platform and a joy to use but I personally refuse to use it.

Downgrade in terms of privacy from WhatsApp? Some explanation is needed for such a bold statement.

I'm referring to two things(although really just one) here - WhatsApp claims to store messages only as long as they are undelivered, after which they are purged from their servers. Even if they are retained, they are e2e encrypted. Telegram on the other hand, from what I can see, store all messages in plaintext or in an encrypted-at-rest form where they control and have access to the keys. It comes down to whether I trust them, and I have no reason to.

- Tying back into the encryption point, in the event of a breach or an MITM, whoever intercepts or accesses WhatsApp messages will get encrypted dumps, while my Telegram messages are pretty much going to be in plaintext.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#85

Post by approxim8ion » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

tlarkworthy wrote: post #14

approxim8ion wrote: post #3

Telegram is a downgrade in terms of both security and privacy. Just leaving the comment for people who consider it. It's an excellent platform and a joy to use but I personally refuse to use it.

If it's good enough for organised criminals and to anger various governments, it's good enough for me

That's your threat model and that's fair enough.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#86

Post by cookiengineer » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

0x_rs wrote: post #43

Been using Telegram for a long time. I don't trust it any more than I do with WhatsApp (therefore, Facebook), however it is well done and thought out, has a real desktop client with a real desktop UI toolkit and enough of my contacts are on it already, therefore it's the best compromise to me. I greatly dislike Signal's UI when I tried it out and I've read about some weird decisions lately (that "using a PIN? uploadi…

For people that are not aware: There's a Telegram FOSS [1] fork which contains all kinds of fixes; and additionally is Google Services and tracking free, which means it will run on AOSP and LineageOS without any burden of push services.

You can verify this yourself with AppWarden [2].

[1] https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS

[2] https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AppWarden

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#87

Post by remirk » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

hrns wrote: post #58

0x_rs wrote: post #43

Been using Telegram for a long time. I don't trust it any more than I do with WhatsApp (therefore, Facebook), however it is well done and thought out, has a real desktop client with a real desktop UI toolkit and enough of my contacts are on it already, therefore it's the best compromise to me. I greatly dislike Signal's UI when I tried it out and I've read about some weird decisions lately (that "using a PIN? uploadi…

Signal requires phone number in order not to store your contact list on their servers. Instead of id's/email addresses/nicknames they are using your phone contact list. IMHO that's better for privacy.

That depends on what you want with privacy. If you'd want to chat anonymously, having to use your real phone number is a bummer. At least in my country, it's getting harder and harder to get a SIM-card that is not tied to your name.

The alternative is getting a burner SIM-card. Though, that will become harder once more prepaid providers require your ID.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#88

Post by gyosko » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

The problem is not finding a nice alternative.

The problem is that everybody's contacts are on Whatsapp. How do you make THEM switch?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#89

Post by 0x_rs » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

hrns wrote: post #58

0x_rs wrote: post #43

Been using Telegram for a long time. I don't trust it any more than I do with WhatsApp (therefore, Facebook), however it is well done and thought out, has a real desktop client with a real desktop UI toolkit and enough of my contacts are on it already, therefore it's the best compromise to me. I greatly dislike Signal's UI when I tried it out and I've read about some weird decisions lately (that "using a PIN? uploadi…

Signal requires phone number in order not to store your contact list on their servers. Instead of id's/email addresses/nicknames they are using your phone contact list. IMHO that's better for privacy.

That's very reasonable then. It's not a deal breaking issue especially so moving from or compared to less trustworthy entities already having your phone number (e.g. WhatsApp), but it had left me wondering, I thought it was used in the most part for authentication.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#90

Post by mkl » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

dividedbyzero wrote: post #73

It would (have been?) interesting to know who isn't switching anywhere (and/or not considering to switch) Also, I can't seem to find anything about a messenger named Zom, do you mean Zoom? If so, is Zoom really something people use for the same use case as Whatsapp?

https://zom.im/zomenglish.html

As ColinWright notes elsewhere, a search for ["zom" messaging] finds it.