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Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

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Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#81

Post by lexicality »

rossmohax wrote: post #23

> towering at an astonishing 25,646 feet Why does Web have localization for time values (date format, first day of a week, etc), but not for dimensional or weight measurements?

Because the kind of American that understands that not everyone knows how big a foot is already puts the actual length in brackets so the people that cause problems wouldn't use it even if it was a feature.

Also, if it worked like you'd have to put the value in a standardised unit (eg SI units) which would also annoy the Americans and they'd refuse to do it.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#82

Post by azernik »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #36
AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 half lives means it will have reduced radioactivity to (1/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/1)*100 % of original or .19% of its original radioactivity. Also keep in mind radioactive decay is not even. The faster, thus more dangerous, particles inherently decay faster and will be even more degraded, I'm not going to do the math on it, but, probably another order of magnitude or three.

True but plutonium is pretty poisonous too. Luckily the ocean is very big

After it decays, it's no longer plutonium; instead it's uranium-234. Uranium's heavy-metal toxicity is quite well-established, and uranium-234 is more radioactive than the natural isotopic mix, but at the low-single-digit-kilogram scale involved in the SNAP-27 RTG it's not a major concern.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#83

Post by azernik »

freeflight wrote: post #70
GekkePrutser wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but plutonium is pretty poisonous too. Luckily the ocean is very big

> Luckily the ocean is very big As is the planets atmosphere, which for the longest time served as a justification to pump it full with emissions, that now leave us with a run-away problem at a scale that's still difficult for most people to wrap their heads around.

That's a problem because we're still pumping out emissions. RTG losses have been a small number (under 5) accidents that have probably emitted in total under 10kg of material.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#84

Post by Intermernet »

aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA wrote: post #78
thombat wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's only after escaping from the Misty Mountains that Gandalf can have any idea that Bilbo possesses such a ring, but I don't remember him modifying the plan in response to that knowledge. Meaning that if it was a suicide mission, it was set up that way all along, so rather than this being Gandalf the realpolitik puppetmaster it's Gandalf the Rollercoaster Tycoon player, erecting a lengthy and complex scheme…

Is there a Godwin’s Law for discussions eventually leading to LotR topics?

Éowyn's Law

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#85

Post by Someone »

willvarfar wrote: post #75
mannykannot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it was stolen. The story mentions this as being a concern at the time, but if we take the story to be substantially correct, the idea that a foreign government would learn about the device, and then mount a secret expedition to find and recover it during the season climbing is regarded as infeasible, just seems to be paranoid nonsense.

Except that there have now come to light some staggering espionage recovery missions eg Project Coldfeet which ransacked a soviet ice station, Project Ivy Bells to recover the missiles and stuff from soviet missile tests, and Project Azorian to raise a sunk soviet submarine. There was even a Project Barmaid (are all British code names better?) that had a claw fitted to HMS Conquerer to sever and capture the towed son…

“are all British code names better?”

Don’t know, but they had the brilliantly named “Operation Hope Not”, preparations for the funeral of Winston Churchill. It started in 1953; he died in 1965 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hope_Not)

There also is “Operation London Bridge”, a plan that has been updated for over half a century, for when queen Elizabeth II dies (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens...). That will be a momentous event because because she’s the queen of a very large part of the world (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, the United Kingdom and various smaller islands), and because most of the population of Britain wasn’t born when her predecessor died (making it a rare event)

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#86

Post by mattr47 »

nafizh wrote: post #16
morsch wrote: post #7

In a nice bit of symmetry, another RTG is lost in an ocean trench: The fuel cask from the SNAP-27 unit carried by the Apollo 13 mission currently lies in 20,000 feet (6,100 m) of water at the bottom of the Tonga Trench in the Pacific Ocean. This mission failed to land on the moon, and the lunar module carrying its generator burnt up during re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere, with the trajectory arranged so that the…

So after 870 years, it begins to pollute the water?

And then we get Godzilla.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#87

Post by ngcc_hk »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #11

For people who don't want to slog through the long-form article for the few tidbits of actual information: "Nuclear device" does not refer to a nuclear weapon in this case, it was a radio signal capturing device powered by a RTG. They had to abandon the first one when trying to install it due to bad weather and couldn't find it again. Maybe it was stolen, maybe it just melted its way under many meters of ice and snow…

It is military grade and hence the material itself is weapon? plutonium is weapon?

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#88

Post by garmaine »

klodolph wrote: post #72
garmaine wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? Other than the radioactivity, plutonium isn’t any more poisonous than other heavy elements, afaik. And it’s not a lot of material.

I think the comment is referring to the heavy metal toxicity, which is presumed but poorly studied in humans.

Yeah but we’re talking about a small amount of material. There’s probably more lead in the electronics you use. Dumped in the ocean, it’s nothing.

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#89

Post by tobylane »

baybal2 wrote: post #77
wewake wrote: post #60

Last week, I went into the rabbit hole and researched about the whole incident as my drinking water comes from one of the tributaries of Ganga river and this device has polluted a source glacier of the river - with plutonium. Great. One of the climbers, Jim McCarthy claimed he got cancer due to the time he spent in close proximity of the device and according to him, the local people who helped them in the trek are lo…

There are already things way worse than plutonium in Ganga.

What are you referring to?

Re: Lost nuclear device atop of Nanda Devi

#90

Post by MertsA »

doggydogs94 wrote: post #39

At the mention of the word "nuclear", otherwise rational people turn into bumbling idiots.

This wasn't a nuclear weapon, it was a poorly contained RTG and from the sound of it the fuel rods weren't even inside the device yet. A good sized hunk of Pu-238 in the glaciers feeding the Ganges is cause for concern to say the least. The half life of Pu-239 like what would be used for a nuclear bomb is 275x times as much so even just the small amount present for the RTG is releasing many many times more fission products and radiation than a sizeable nuclear weapon.
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