Has there been studies to check if this effect is more pronounced in people with aphantasia? My thoughts are usually rich with visualizations and I have no trouble sitting in a room and thinking.
All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
81–90 of 468 posts
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#82Recently I was having a debate with a friend who said "you thought about this lot" in a mocking tone, and I suddenly realized how strange it was that that phrase is used so commonly as an insult. Solid thought isn't just good but necessary and we're seeing the symptoms of this everywhere.
The person's point is likely that you spent a lot of energy on something that probably doesn't matter. This might be subjective, of course, but it is possible to think about something for longer than you should. Navel-gazing isn't a virtue. Though ideally you probably want to be with people who think that the same stuff is important.
Longer than you should? There is no such thing. Of course it's possible to spend thought without resulting in any new discoveries but that's not really a problem because thoughts are interconnected and build upon each other to create better mental models for other situations. It doesn't matter how petty or insignificant the topic is, it's the act of thinking deeply about something that's important.
Anyway, I understand the social context of the phrase, but my point is that it's used so often in place a real argument and is a sign of the greater superficiality of most discussions today.
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have heard that a couple times as well and all but once it has been mocking. There is almost a built in anti intellectualism to some people.
rtpg above has hit the nail on the head. Mocking someone for climbing the wrong ladder isn't necessarily anti intellectualism.
In your analogy, the climbing is what's important, not which ladder. Learning how to climb well is applicable regardless of which ladder you encounter in the future.
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#84Do people here feel the same way? That is, do you feel that it is uncomfortable to not do anything? I, like most people I guess, am easily distracted with various things like reading HN or fiddling with whatever is on the table. When given the opportunity to sit down with nothing with my thoughts however, I always feel very enjoyable. It is definitely nothing I would think about as uncomfortable.
> do you feel that it is uncomfortable to not do anything?
I don't. Although if reading qualifies as "doing something", I guess I'm almost never not doing anything, because if I don't have anything else to do, I almost always read. Of course I've always been careful to have plenty of reading material on hand; one nice thing about a smartphone is that you can carry a whole library around with you wherever you go.
In situations where I genuinely have nothing to do, not even read, I might get bored if I can't come up with something to think about, but I wouldn't say it's uncomfortable for me to not do anything. It's just a situation where it's on me to come up with something to think about.
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#85This quote has fascinated me for a long time. It seems that this is a skill that can be sharpened with deliberate practice.
I went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat (Vipasana) abs felt I got much more comfortable sitting by myself just observing my thoughts. The practice part was difficult, probably one of the hardest things I have ever done. 10 days of no talking/reading/writing, sitting in a room, observing your sensations, for hours on end, punctuated by 5 minute breaks. I felt the world temporarily go from HD to 4K after a couple of days.
Anyways, this really made me reconsider my relationship with thoughts. I feel I can separate the sense of my being from my thoughts some times. This helps me with my anxiety.
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
The environment doesn't matter. If it does then you're already distracted from the thought.
That’s absurd. To take it to extremes, for example, if you made someone sit alone in the freezing cold and they complained, the environment is the issue not their ability to live alone with their thoughts.
But why "take it to extremes"? Yes, if you're sitting next to a volcano or on a glacier then outside conditions can affect your ability to think. Obviously.
However the OP said "an indoor room isn’t a particularly desirable environment" - and that actually is absurd. If you need to be in a sauna or on a beach then you're already too distracted by the environment to be able to think deeply.
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#87This quote comes from Blaise Pascal's Pensées, accessible here. "That is why we like noise and activity so much. That is why imprisonment is such a horrific punishment. That is why the pleasure of being alone is incomprehensible. That is, in fact, the main joy of the condition of kingship, because people are constantly trying to amuse kings and provide them with all sorts of distraction.—The king is surrounded by peo…
>The king is surrounded by people whose only thought is to entertain him and prevent him from thinking about himself.
This is really interesting from a modern perspective. I'm an audiophile - I've spent countless hours just sitting in a chair in front of a stereo system I've spent a couple thousand on. If I ever lapse into non-attention to the music, I try and get back to the music. It's like mindfulness meditation, but unlike the monk, my mind is focusing on a sense, not emptying itself.
On the other hand, I can't lie in bed for more than two minutes without deep introspection - my morality, arguments for and against all positions, what projects I want to work on, the papers I've read, etc.
But before writing some comments on this website and elsewhere, I'll have a deep think about what I'm arguing, and why. Other times I'll just jump at it for the engagement, the thrill of refreshing in the morning to check the Hacker News Engagement Number, whatever else. I've tried to make an effort to not read outrage-bait on Reddit, I've deleted my Twitter account years ago, I've done countless things. This i my third HN account.
The best part of my day, after work and my energy is exhausted? Gaming. I only play one game - online and multi-player, with an Icelandic man I've never met. It's all a distraction. Why continue learning piano, Japanese, philosophy, literature, introspection, when I have this pleasure right here? Where will I be in 30 years? 20 years? Even writing this comment sadness comes over me.
To think that in the 19th century, there were men being compared to Hegel and Feuerbach at age 21. What the hell am I doing?
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#88I've been sitting quietly in a room alone for months, it will likely be a year before it's done. I'm able, I'm OK with it. The Daoist/Bonpa[1] base qigong I've studied, along with other practices (Alexander technique, self-hypnosis, NLP, etc.etc), has prepared me for this. But it hasn't solved all my problems, I wouldn't expect it to and I have a hunch that this kind of simplistic formula is something like a weakness of the "Western" (philosophical) outlook.
I understand that the "inability" stateme involve an effort to cast a spotlight on many people's inability to attain something like a "meditative mindset". If that's all you want to do, fine. But you houldn't take awareness, a contemplative mindset, and so-forth as the answer to everything. It's much closer to starting to explore the question, having sufficient tools to explore human existence, etc.
Indeed, I'd say "humans are capable of sitting alone quiet in a room alone and it is the ignorance of a given person that prevents this. But to overcome your ignorance, you probably have to leave your room".
TL;DR; this kind of claim is more like taunting the unenlightened than helping.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon , https://www.academyofqidao.com/
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#89I've been sitting in a room, alone, for almost two years now. So far, this has yet to resolve any problems.
Re: All problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone (2014)
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the "in a room" is irrelevant to the quote. The entire idea is that people hate being alone with their thoughts and will do nearly anything to avoid being in that situation.
In a room was the setup for the alleged experiment, therefore not irrelevant. I'm wary how quickly the writer jumps to the conclusion that it's thought avoidance and not, possibly, just the fact our minds seek stimulation
Thought is stimulation.