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The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

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Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#81

Post by Bakary »

ericmcer wrote: post #34

I recently read a story about two people on their death beds, both had worked hard and achieved success in their fields. One was happily reflective and talked about what a journey life had been, the other was upset and remorseful, talking about how much time he had wasted. I wonder if the contents of your life are secondary to your semi-hardwired emotional state. I am naturally somewhat anxious and hate wasting a day…

I had a realization similar to this not too long ago during a manic episode. The philosophical beliefs and impressions of the world and our own selves that we hold are a byproduct of our general mood and are essentially post-facto rationalizations.

On a side note, I find it strange that so much attention is given to a person's final days and whether regret will experienced then. They should not count much more than any other series of days. In fact, they are the ideal time to feel regret since your problem will be soon resolved!

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#82

Post by vlovich123 »

giovannibonetti wrote: post #71
ericmcer wrote: post #34

I recently read a story about two people on their death beds, both had worked hard and achieved success in their fields. One was happily reflective and talked about what a journey life had been, the other was upset and remorseful, talking about how much time he had wasted. I wonder if the contents of your life are secondary to your semi-hardwired emotional state. I am naturally somewhat anxious and hate wasting a day…

According to the documentary Happy [1], happiness is ~50% genetics and ~50% about what happens in your life. The most intriguing part for me was that major life events like getting married (happy) or becoming disabled (bad) don't affect so much happiness in the long run. [1] https://www.thehappymovie.com/

Careful how those stats are collected/computed. I don’t think statistics techniques and the methodology that’s used to run these kinds of experiments is anywhere good enough to make such bold conclusionary statements. It sounds nice in theory but in practice social sciences are to other science disciplines (that can make such definitive statements) as tabloids are to news papers. It’s a cheap imitation from the viewpoint of the strength of the conclusions. I hope they get to a better footing eventually but that entire field is way to arrogant right now in the strength of the conclusions they make based on bad science (limited population studies, small effect studies, rarely/never publishing negative results which is a kind of p-hacking en made, lack of reproducibility, etc). That also ignores the fact that epistemologically they have a weak footing of not actually concretely describing their terms (ie happy, sad, good, bad, etc) or how they can measure these things (what is 1 happiness unit?).

Once you start seeing links establishing how to actually measure this stuff with technology, then the results will be more meaningful (easy to replicate experiments, easy to do things en masse more cheaply and quickly).

That being said I still have respect for the work being done. It should still be done rather than wait for better tech but the incentive structures for that field need to be drastically different to better reflect the quality of using that data to make decisions (maybe a generally agreed upon ban to feature it in “public” media/journals, more careful reporting by science journals to limit to the results of meta studies or major reversals of what might be orthodoxy, publishing lists like Math does of what are open problems and what are assumed to be the conclusion even if not proven yet, etc). There are reforms to be made but until that’s done these studies do more harm than good as people latch on to whichever they want that sounds good to them rather than what’s actual reality).

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#83

Post by Bakary »

renjimen wrote: post #73
konjin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having listened to a few women going through theirs: kids. Either not having them, the kids not meeting their mothers expectations or the kids never wanting to see their mothers again once they grow up.

What do we have to blame for that, do you think? Encouraging independence? Expectation inflation from social media?

The general mindset of having kids as a project or to resolve some emotional turmoil.

Unlike a dog, the child usually behaves in unanticipated ways...

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#84

Post by Bakary »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #24

This has been going on a long time. Take for example Julius Caesar at the age of 33 as recorded by Plutarch: > In like manner we are told again that, in Spain, when he was at leisure and was reading from the history of Alexander, he was lost in thought for a long time, and then burst into tears. His friends were astonished, and asked the reason for his tears. "Do you not think," said he, "it is matter for sorrow that…

It's worth asking why we shackle ourselves to ideas made when we barely had any knowledge of the world

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#85

Post by pavlov »

Bakary wrote: post #81
ericmcer wrote: post #34

I recently read a story about two people on their death beds, both had worked hard and achieved success in their fields. One was happily reflective and talked about what a journey life had been, the other was upset and remorseful, talking about how much time he had wasted. I wonder if the contents of your life are secondary to your semi-hardwired emotional state. I am naturally somewhat anxious and hate wasting a day…

I had a realization similar to this not too long ago during a manic episode. The philosophical beliefs and impressions of the world and our own selves that we hold are a byproduct of our general mood and are essentially post-facto rationalizations. On a side note, I find it strange that so much attention is given to a person's final days and whether regret will experienced then. They should not count much more than a…

The truly great thing about dying is that you won’t regret it.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#86

Post by bradlys »

Bakary wrote: post #84
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #24

This has been going on a long time. Take for example Julius Caesar at the age of 33 as recorded by Plutarch: > In like manner we are told again that, in Spain, when he was at leisure and was reading from the history of Alexander, he was lost in thought for a long time, and then burst into tears. His friends were astonished, and asked the reason for his tears. "Do you not think," said he, "it is matter for sorrow that…

It's worth asking why we shackle ourselves to ideas made when we barely had any knowledge of the world

The alternative you end up living under is one the parents create. While likely more attainable, not likely fulfilling. You could change goals as you go... I did that. But if you’re like me, you have failure around every corner and you’re more ambitious than a thousand men. You will become jaded well before you’re 40. I was jaded before I was even 30. I gave up and tried again many times.

And now that I’m 30, I hate how much suffering I endured the last decade. Questioning everything every step. Wondering how long it’d go. Wondering if there was ever a payoff to anything and not just another stepping stone. Wondering if I was as strong as I used to be. Constantly thinking to myself, I was stronger then. I was better then. I was smarter, faster, etc. Somehow I feel like I peaked near high school and it’s been a decline since.

But, likely, it’s more that I just haven’t had a path as easy or clear since then. Thus, ambiguity leads to more ambition which leads to more suffering which leads to more feelings of inadequacy.

It’s a great time...

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#87

Post by bradlys »

trianglem wrote: post #16

Tangentially related, but I think that there’s a real problem in western society around the teen years. Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. This leads to a reliable pattern of teens “hating” their parents, a phenomenon that is non existent in the rest of the world especially Asia. This also leads to a huge disparity in what percentage of kids…

Are we talking about at institutions or at home? Corporal punishment is legal in all 50 states for parents.

Btw, corporal punishment isn’t a great alternative to dissing your kids. Both are terrible and should be avoided.

Just because some people beat the shit out of kids in Asia doesn’t mean Asia got it right.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#88

Post by borroka »

throwaway2245 wrote: post #78
borroka wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"nobody is thinking about you (except you) so it’s not worth concerning yourself with status or outside validation." This is often repeated, but it is so untrue that I don't get why well-intentioned people repeat it. Nobody thinks about me as much as I think about me, but some make decisions, be romantic, professional, based on what they think about me, that is my appearance, my status, my money, my family. As usual,…

> people are not thinking as much about them anymore I disagree. I don't observe much difference in this sense, but I feel more free to be my authentic self without worrying about how that might be perceived by people who are not a meaningful part of my life. I only recognise the meaning in "life begins at 40" since I reached it.

There are different points that need to be touched here.

First, as always, there is a distribution of effects, which means that there is individual variation. We can reasonably assume that, _on average_, the older people are, the less they care about other people's opinions. The age after which these effects are noticeable is not immutable since the dawn of times, but depends on when people have kids, are expected to retire, etc. For example, I expect the age at which one cares less to be later in life now that three decades ago, when people at 40 were already considered way past their prime. I mean, for the generation of my parents, physical activity after they turned 18-20 was for wealthy people or "eccentrics".

Second, it depends very much on what is settled for the person or what is still fluid. If someone has a family or has reached of the "peace of the senses", they are already caring much less about the major source of frustration (much more than source of joy) and status-seeking behavior for most people: sex. If somebody has also given up on practicing sports (or any king of competitive hobby), put up the classic 40 pounds more at 40 years old, they care even less about others. Lastly, hormones change, testosterone in men visibly drops, women start getting into menopause. And then it depends on personality (see the point above about variation), there are people who are still combative in the status game at 80 and others who have given up at 21.

In synthesis, it is not that older means wiser and thus the "who cares what other people think" comes from a place of introspection (between us: sex is incredibly pleasurable), but more simply that hormonal changes, "giving up" (sex, competition) put people, sooner or later, on the bench of life: spectators, more than players.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#89

Post by trianglem »

bradlys wrote: post #87
trianglem wrote: post #16

Tangentially related, but I think that there’s a real problem in western society around the teen years. Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. This leads to a reliable pattern of teens “hating” their parents, a phenomenon that is non existent in the rest of the world especially Asia. This also leads to a huge disparity in what percentage of kids…

Are we talking about at institutions or at home? Corporal punishment is legal in all 50 states for parents. Btw, corporal punishment isn’t a great alternative to dissing your kids. Both are terrible and should be avoided. Just because some people beat the shit out of kids in Asia doesn’t mean Asia got it right.

There’s a difference between beating the shit out of your kids and a slap across the face. That nuance gets thrown out with the bath water though.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#90

Post by OneGuy123 »

blendo wrote: post #76

This rings true: “Anderson's analysis shows that those born in 1891 could expect to inherit from their parents at the age of 37, while they still had children at home and when their oldest child was ‘at best only just entering the labour force’. By contrast, those born in 1946 could expect to wait until 56 before both parents had died, that is well after their children had left home, leaving middle-aged parents in th…

This. Moderne parents have children much later so the children might have to end up supporting their parents before they even have a familiy of their own which puts a huge financial strain on them, preventing them from having more kids.
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