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SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

arstechnica.com

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Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#81

Post by barbacoa »

pkaye wrote: post #53
elihu wrote: post #42

I read a theory once that one of the reasons why so many Boomers were able to buy land or houses cheaply that later appreciated substantially in value was the interstate highway system built during WWII. Suddenly, a lot of real estate was in easy driving range of employers, and so there was a period of over-supply of highly desirable real estate. I wonder if Starlink (and changes in work expectations due to the pande…

What percent of workers do work that can be done remotely?

>What percent of workers do work that can be done remotely?

Not a huge number, but that's all you need to support a small town economy. It's like the plight of the rust belt -- you had small communities that relied on manufacturing job to support the local retail and services jobs. When those manufacturing jobs evaporated due to outsourcing those small towns imploded.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#82

Post by sneak »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #77
juanbyrge wrote: post #9

If there is any corporate entity I'd happy giving public funding, it would be SpaceX. Their end goal is to settle Mars and potentially other bodies in the solar system. Compared with the absurd amounts of money wasted on defense contractors, I am perfectly happy with funding SpaceX in every way possible.

I wouldn’t characterize defense spending as waste. China is a significant threat, for example, and maintaining superiority over them is of national importance IMO.

This view presupposes that nations themselves are important, and that preserving the existence and concept of nations, and their superiority over other nations, isn't wasteful.

I doubt very much that the children born on Mars will share your view about the value of Earth nations.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#84

Post by Tuna-Fish »

asdfaoeu wrote: post #40
xoa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beta terminal cost is $500, and beta service is $100/month (at up to ~150 Mbps or so right now?). So the money would cover the terminal cost to those customers and then full freight 8 months of service at current pricing. Alternatively/in addition, and more similarly to traditional in-ground service, it may also simply help fun actual infrastructure in the form of more/faster deployment of ground stations and sat…

According to some leaked info SpaceX is paying $2400 per terminal.

The leaked info is sort of wrong in both directions. (Or, the info is correct, but is widely misinterpreted.)

The $2.4B they paid to ST Micro is not for terminals, as ST Micro doesn't manufacture electronics, they are a foundry and so they only make the chips. The $2.4B includes the costs for the chips for the first million receivers, but the assembly and non-chip costs add a lot on top of that. So in that sense, $2400 per terminal is a serious underestimate.

But it's also wrong in the other direction, because the $2.4B didn't just include the chips, it also included the development and mask costs for those chips. This should be considered to be NRE and not considered as part of the price of the terminals, as SpaceX will not have to pay that for the next million terminals.

So the real number is above or below $2400 depending on what costs more, the motors, pcbs, the antenna layers, the chassis and the assembly of a terminal, or 1/1000000 of the NRE of developing the ASICs for Starlink. Who knows.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#85

Post by marcusverus »

elihu wrote: post #42

I read a theory once that one of the reasons why so many Boomers were able to buy land or houses cheaply that later appreciated substantially in value was the interstate highway system built during WWII. Suddenly, a lot of real estate was in easy driving range of employers, and so there was a period of over-supply of highly desirable real estate. I wonder if Starlink (and changes in work expectations due to the pande…

I've had a similar thought regarding the impact of affordable autonomous vehicles, for two reasons. 1) Commuters who can read / game / whittle while they commute will be willing to commute farther, and 2) if widespread adoption of autonomous cars can mitigate the effects of traffic (i.e. enable us to actually drive the speed limit during rush hour, or at least closer to it), we'll be able to commute farther in the same amount of time.

Those effects combined would unlock an absolute ton of land around urban areas.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#86

Post by iptrans »

simonh wrote: post #75
iptrans wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have misunderstood the purpose of RDOF grants. The RDOF grants are not there to establish competition. RDOF grants exist purely for some company to provide broadband service where there is none. If anything it's funding a local monopoly.

If that wee true, since Starlink will reach everywhere, they would only need to fund Starlink. In fact the OP would be correct and no subsidy would be needed since Starlink is already being built.

I am glad we agree, me being both the one you are replying to and the OP you are referring to.

For the avoidance of doubt, here's the link to the FCC RDOF auction and the relevant quote:

"... Rural Digital Opportunity Fund to bring high speed fixed broadband service to rural homes and small businesses that lack it."

https://www.fcc.gov/auction/904

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#87

Post by nevdka »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #28
liquidise wrote: post #7

This headline is only part of the story, looks like ~10 ISP's were awarded sizable subsidies. While i am not a fan of subsidies in general, the ISP space is particularly tricky for free-market forces to ensure competition. The capital requirements are overwhelming in many cases for a traditional startups, leaving the only other option as local/municipal votes, which have been successful in some areas. Long-term, i co…

My recent employer was one of the ISP providing rural telecom service. These subsidies accounted for a hefty percentage of our income and the company was still perpetually on the edge of failure. Most of our competitors were in similar situations, loaded down with breathtakingly large amounts of debt and expensive to maintain decaying infrastructure, much of it purchased from the Baby Bells when they got out of the m…

The infrastructure those companies have built already exists, and the subsidies are mostly going to pay debt. If the subsidies stopped, the companies would go bankrupt. Their assets would be sold to another company, likely at a price less than the debt. The new company could therefore have a lower debt burden, and wouldn't necessarily need the subsidies to provide the same level of service. The subsidies are stopping the market from efficiently allocating capital.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#88

Post by peey »

juanbyrge wrote: post #9

If there is any corporate entity I'd happy giving public funding, it would be SpaceX. Their end goal is to settle Mars and potentially other bodies in the solar system. Compared with the absurd amounts of money wasted on defense contractors, I am perfectly happy with funding SpaceX in every way possible.

"Mars Terraforming Not Possible Using Present-Day Technology"

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/goddard/2018/mars-terrafo...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-018-0529-6

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#89

Post by madamelic »

ccorda wrote: post #47

This was a reverse auction, where the goal was to minimze cost to government to get high speed internet in rural areas. Starlink bid in the Above Baseline tier, meaning ≥ 100/20 Mbps (with data cap of ≥ 2 TB). According to the FCC [1], 99.7% of locations are at that tier or higher, and 85%+ in the highest Gigabit (1000/500) tier. So it looks like the auction funded gigabit where there was a provider bidding at that t…

>One question I have is whether these gigabit deployments actually happen,

No.

Every time the US gives money to telecoms to roll out fiber, the telecoms play a shell game and disappear the money or use it to fight against municipalities that try to build their own infrastructure.

https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/11/27/americans-...

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#90

Post by markdown »

peey wrote: post #88
juanbyrge wrote: post #9

If there is any corporate entity I'd happy giving public funding, it would be SpaceX. Their end goal is to settle Mars and potentially other bodies in the solar system. Compared with the absurd amounts of money wasted on defense contractors, I am perfectly happy with funding SpaceX in every way possible.

"Mars Terraforming Not Possible Using Present-Day Technology" https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/goddard/2018/mars-terrafo... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-018-0529-6

If we can't even stop our own planet from warming...
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