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A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

nytimes.com

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Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#81

Post by Turing_Machine »

jamiek88 wrote: post #77
supernova87a wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a phenomenon (harsh in the case of Jiro's son amid modern sensibilities about free will and obligation), which is said to have fueled some aspects of human exploration (and also unfortunately the bad aspects of it) in history. The 2nd son didn't inherit under the doctrine of primogeniture, leading the later sons to be the (often) neglected or less favored / wealthy, motivating them (for better and worse) to s…

The crusades too. Too many second and third sons this too many knights. Inherit, clergy or war.

Yes. A son in the Church was sort of a hot-swappable backup, as the Church would cut him loose if you had a good reason, such as the primary heir having died (and, of course, subject to the payment of a ...modest donation...), but while he was in the Church he was no threat to the primary. Any children he himself had (this was far from unheard of) would be automatically be illegitimate and not in the line of succession.

Extra sons were, yep, often sent off to war. They'd either conquer their own territories or be killed. In either case, they were no longer a threat to the primary heir.

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#82

Post by scsilver »

burner831234 wrote: post #65
howlgarnish wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oldest restaurant in Nara hasn't changed their menu in 500 years or so: your options are barley rice with grated yam (mugi tororo) or barley rice with broiled eel (unagi). The eel is great. The barley rice with gloopy yam on top... let's just say I understand why nobody else sells this stuff anymore.

What I absolutely love about this comment is that I feel exactly the opposite. Love mugi tororo and cannot figure out how eel is popular at all.

You mean the delicious barbequed fish with fatty meat that melts in your mouth doesnt seem like it should be popular? Its like fois gras of the sea.

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#83

Post by Complexicate »

bovermyer wrote: post #14

Someday I hope to own my own little pub, free and clear, and just do that for the rest of my life. It wouldn't be stress-free, but I enjoyed my time working in a bar, and I like the idea of operating a little community hub.

As someone who (finally) went from employee to small business owner, I wouldn't wait for "someday". Start the process while you're still working now. Take the time to learn everything you can to make this happen over the next couple of years.

"Free and clear" stops a lot of people, but it's not as important as knowing how to scale up and down so your cash flow is always above paying your debts. There will be balancing acts whether you own the building or not. Figure out the minimum sales you need to survive, and plan the maximum size you can grow to. You can start toward "free and clear" by negotiating a "lease with the option to buy". Considering recent situations, hire a lawyer to put contingencies on rent in case of government mandated shutdowns or reductions.

If this is truly a dream of yours, don't wait. Start looking at locations and gathering information.

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#84

Post by Sophistifunk »

This reads like some "noble savage" rubbish about how the Japanese are better than us evil capitalists, but how exactly does one maintain a business in a steady-state for 1000 years when the neighbourhood around you gets gentrified, or the zoning changes, or your city made pension promises it can't keep for council employees so your land tax doubles every 5 years?

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#85

Post by ardy42 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #40
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, owning property and having a place in the community. What a nightmare.

The documentary Jiro Dreams of Sushi has a poignant commentary on this. Jiro's oldest son is expected to eventually take over Jiro's sushi place, so as a result essentially is toiling for his father into old age. On the other hand, somewhat ironically Jiro's younger son actually has more freedom, so he strikes out on his own pretty early and has his own very successful sushi joint.

> The documentary Jiro Dreams of Sushi has a poignant commentary on this. Jiro's oldest son is expected to eventually take over Jiro's sushi place, so as a result essentially is toiling for his father into old age. On the other hand, somewhat ironically Jiro's younger son actually has more freedom, so he strikes out on his own pretty early and has his own very successful sushi joint.

IIRC, that's wrong. The documentary said that Japanese tradition is that the eldest son inherits the father's business. Jiro has two sons, so he created a clone of his business for the second. They're literally exactly the same layout except mirror images of each other.

The poignant thing that I remember is that the person who actually made the sushi for the reviewer who made the restaurant famous was not Jiro, but his son. And the wondrous thing was that the enterprise wasn't about chasing fame or fortune, but about being dedicated to excelling at a craft.

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#86

Post by ardy42 »

supernova87a wrote: post #75
felipemnoa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of us do not want to work in the family business but rather want to pursue our dreams. You only have the one life after all.

I would hazard to say it is only in relative recent history (and in capitalism) that new and adventurous = prosperity. For much of history, leaving behind what you know was no guarantee of success (and maybe great risk of material poverty).

> I would hazard to say it is only in relative recent history (and in capitalism) that new and adventurous = prosperity. For much of history, leaving behind what you know was no guarantee of success (and maybe great risk of material poverty).

That hasn't really changed. Taking risk is no guarantee of success. Sure, some risk takers win big, but some people win the lottery, too.

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#87

Post by supernova87a »

Axsuul wrote: post #13

The kicker is at the end. Should future generations be obligated to continue the family business even if they resent it?

Well, in some respect, that is the strength of culture. Culture is a software that controls what people do, and what their country becomes (to some significant extent).

For some purposes, such a culture is very restrictive and discontent-inducing. But for other purposes, this culture might help you survive through long problems and dangerous situations that might kill off a people who believed in doing whatever you want and bailing when things get hard. It really depends on the environment that it operates within -- this is not a statement that a particular culture is "better" in every case.

Side note, this is why, as a visitor to Japan, you get to enjoy all the benefits of seeing the examples of what discipline (and inflexibility) can bring -- but you would go crazy and not be happy if you had to live there.

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#88

Post by johannes1234321 »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #16
Axsuul wrote: post #13

The kicker is at the end. Should future generations be obligated to continue the family business even if they resent it?

Thats what adopting full grown adults as sons is for.

Especially for Japan this is the correct answer. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/japanese-adoption-r...

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#89

Post by OJFord »

err4nt wrote: post #45
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats what adopting full grown adults as sons is for.

Usually we try keep family and business apart (nepotism is seen as evil), but the way businesses run so often exploits or abuses humans and families. With this mindset of adopting future business owners into your real family, it's putting family above business even in business. I wonder how the results pan out, maybe there's wisdom in here we're largely missing by the way we approach things.

It's a common practice in Japan.

Re: A Japanese shop is 1,020 years old

#90

Post by ardy42 »

kiddico wrote: post #49
iratewizard wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like work?

No, like work you want to do. Imagine everyone around you is allowed the opportunity to choose their career. You however are the son of a plumber, and have no choice but to be a plumber. This plumbing business is 1000 years old! Why throw away the family name?! Well, because I'd rather not be a plumber and I'm perfectly capable of something else.

> No, like work you want to do.

It doesn't work like that for most people.

> Imagine everyone around you is allowed the opportunity to choose their career. You however are the son of a plumber, and have no choice but to be a plumber.

Many people end up doing something similar to their parents. Maybe you won't be a plumber if your dads is one, but it's far more likely you'd be a blue-collar tradesman than a doctor. It's also far more likely that a doctor's one will become a doctor or a lawyer than an electrician.

Also, IMHO, this idea that the path to satisfaction by pursuing some kind of dream profession is a fairy tale.

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