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Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

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Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#81

Apple won't support it, therefore support and maintenance will be working around apples proprietary hardware and special drivers. Linux is not meant to live in that environment, I'd argue bettering support for other OEM's is a more fruitfull goal.

On the other hand, we have basically one single model per year to support. That hardware is used by millions and usually users keep it for 5 or more years.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#82
post #64

Apple won't support it, therefore support and maintenance will be working around apples proprietary hardware and special drivers. Linux is not meant to live in that environment, I'd argue bettering support for other OEM's is a more fruitfull goal.

If anyone has been following nvidia/linux story, this nails it on the head. Apple has never played well with FOSS and aren't going to start now. Apple's implementation will always be ahead, better, less bugs, and the linux port will always be a shitty experience that takes up several weeks to get working properly, and then it'll be slower than expected. Get yourself a laptop with an nvidia card and Ubuntu. Even today…

Apple have a FOSS kernel, one of the three remaining web renderers, CUPS, and a bunch more smaller things. They’re not the most religious of FOSS companies, but it’s a bit unfair to say they don’t play well in the places that they play.

If you take FOSS to mean only GPL, then yes, I get your point.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#83
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't trust Apple with anything. Lock-in is their bread and butter. Just because they didn't lock something down for some time means nothing given they are very aggressive with lock-in in other areas. You don't need FUD to know their infamous reputation.

The problem is this notion is not able to be disproved. While I'm completely confident that 10 years from now the Mac will still be open enough to be considered a "real" computer, I'm also confident that 10 years from now someone will be predicting its imminent demise because the water just keeps boiling hotter and hotter. So we'll keep having this argument (and the argument over whether apps will be installable in t…

IMO it's not an unreasonable notion to have. I don't think its out of the question that they would change course and lock it down. I'm not saying it's likely or probable, but I don't think it's an unreasonable concern. In any event, it annoys me that the parent commentator is being dismissed out of hand and downvoted for expressing a legitimate concern.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#84
post #64

Apple won't support it, therefore support and maintenance will be working around apples proprietary hardware and special drivers. Linux is not meant to live in that environment, I'd argue bettering support for other OEM's is a more fruitfull goal.

If anyone has been following nvidia/linux story, this nails it on the head. Apple has never played well with FOSS and aren't going to start now. Apple's implementation will always be ahead, better, less bugs, and the linux port will always be a shitty experience that takes up several weeks to get working properly, and then it'll be slower than expected. Get yourself a laptop with an nvidia card and Ubuntu. Even today…

I've been struggling with nvidia on my laptop for quite some time, but I definitely wouldn't say it took debugging. There are clear limitations, primarily that on older chips the gpu never fully powers down when not offloading, but that was pretty clear from the start. And that's on Arch, using a port of a tool that was made for Ubuntu. On newer computers, it works even better. No matter what, there isn't much room for debugging, be that a good or bad thing.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#86
post #51

Most of what makes the M1 interesting is TSMC's 5nm process, why wouldn't we expect similar results from future x86 CPUs on 5nm or smaller. At least AMD is supporting upstream Linux development for GPU support, if you care about Free software and control over your computers, throw your money at companies better aligned with those goals. Don't reward Apple for being assholes. <=5nm AMD Zen SoCs will be fantastic as we…

Do the companies better aligned make full-metal laptops challenging MacBookAir durability and design while being 100% Linux-compatible?

There are e.g. Dell XPS "developer edition" which are shipping with Ubuntu and have near 100% hardware support (I think there's some issue with fingerprint reader).

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#87

Twitter seems like a poor choice for this (anything really?). Is there a gofundme or something?

The Twitter link is just a poll to survey interest. If you read further in the thread, he suggested the actual fundraising would be on Patreon.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#88
post #51

Most of what makes the M1 interesting is TSMC's 5nm process, why wouldn't we expect similar results from future x86 CPUs on 5nm or smaller. At least AMD is supporting upstream Linux development for GPU support, if you care about Free software and control over your computers, throw your money at companies better aligned with those goals. Don't reward Apple for being assholes. <=5nm AMD Zen SoCs will be fantastic as we…

Are they really assholes? Competition is important to progress and I like that their M1 release has shaken things up so much. We should hopefully be seeing similar CPUs released in the future, now that Apple has shown a glimpse of what's possible.

Until then I'll be enjoying the M1 because even if they're assholes, they're assholes who can make a computer I actually like using.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#89
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone has been following nvidia/linux story, this nails it on the head. Apple has never played well with FOSS and aren't going to start now. Apple's implementation will always be ahead, better, less bugs, and the linux port will always be a shitty experience that takes up several weeks to get working properly, and then it'll be slower than expected. Get yourself a laptop with an nvidia card and Ubuntu. Even today…

Apple have a FOSS kernel, one of the three remaining web renderers, CUPS, and a bunch more smaller things. They’re not the most religious of FOSS companies, but it’s a bit unfair to say they don’t play well in the places that they play. If you take FOSS to mean only GPL, then yes, I get your point.

XNU is not FOSS, and 99% of the foundation classes, Aqua, and drivers are all proprietary.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#90
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone has been following nvidia/linux story, this nails it on the head. Apple has never played well with FOSS and aren't going to start now. Apple's implementation will always be ahead, better, less bugs, and the linux port will always be a shitty experience that takes up several weeks to get working properly, and then it'll be slower than expected. Get yourself a laptop with an nvidia card and Ubuntu. Even today…

Apple have a FOSS kernel, one of the three remaining web renderers, CUPS, and a bunch more smaller things. They’re not the most religious of FOSS companies, but it’s a bit unfair to say they don’t play well in the places that they play. If you take FOSS to mean only GPL, then yes, I get your point.

Yeah I think it’s more often that FOSS that doesn’t play well with Apple. It’s understandable - Apple keeps a lot of desirable software for itself - but perhaps unfortunate.

Federici has said in one of his interviews that Apple wants people to hack on the M1 machines so I’m hopeful that they will be more open than on IOS.

All of that said, I won’t hold my breath.

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