Live data from Hacker News

FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

myhealthyapple.com

81–90 of 98 posts

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#81
post #10

I was recently met with a new popup in the Instagram app, asking me to allow it to track me across applications. I actually said yes, because I get great targeted ads in Instagram and Facebook. I've clicked on multiple ads and actually even made purchases of things that I didn't know about that looked interesting. But the important part is that I do it willingly. I'm glad they were forced to ask -- not everyone is ok…

Are you ok? I’ve never heard any anyone this thrilled about an ad experience in my life.

I love the Instagram and Facebook ads. They're always well targeted for me. And sometimes I go back to look for one I saw earlier in the day.

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#82
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The purpose of ads is to inform people of things they wouldn't otherwise know about That's cute. I've never seen an ad for a wikipedia page though. The real purpose of ads is to convince people to buy things that they otherwise might not have, so that companies can make a profit. Take the https://www.theguardian.com/ . I've got adverts for: - an electric toothbrush. I already have one. But surely the new model is b…

Not a fan of targeted ads, but which ad to show you is only half of the part. The other part is tracking conversions, aka finding out if you actually bought some item after you saw the ad. Also, ads don't have to work for everyone. If they work for some folks, it's already profitable for the platforms. And they do work.

I would say tracking conversions is the most important part. There’s always a lot of attention on targeting because it’s user-facing, creepy, and strikes a nerve with the HN crowd. But anyone that has spent five minutes working with their marketing people or implementing adTech would know the true story.

“Are these ads effective? Should we spend more money on them?” Without conversion data the answer is one big shrug emoji.

I don’t believe most companies in the tech industry care about tracking/fingerprinting users for the sake of collecting & reselling their data. First hand experience, I’m just not ever seeing that. They just want to know if their ads are working or not.

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#83
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality of ads is that you can target them via the content of the page without all that reprehensible spying on people. It's just less profitable.

This is specially true for any kind of news websites or blogs, where it's obvious what content a specific URL contains. The fact alone that a visitor is on that page makes him the best candidate for a targeted ad which refers to the content of the page. No need to have over a dozen of trackers on that page so that advertisers create a profile of you.

The problem is the audience is global as well as the content in many cases.

My local Hearst paper operates a templates website full of crap trackers and ads that are brokered at a central point. They aren’t selling the inventory with local sales managers etc. To keep costs down, everything is aggregated.

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#84
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jedberg was (is?) an administrator at reddit which is an ad-supported business. He has a financial incentive to like advertising.

Heh, it's funny you mention that. For the longest time I refused to run Adblock because it felt hypocritical. But eventually the experience got so bad I relented. I wouldn't say I have an incentive for internet ads to be successful. From the very beginning I advocated for revenue streams other than ads. And reddit is fairly diversified. I don't work there anymore anyway. I guess I just don't mind advertising if done…

I guess I just can't, no matter how hard I try, imagine why a person would think ads are good, especially targeted ads. The only reason I can come up with is that a person would willingly look past how odious advertising is because it pays their bills.

If as you say that's not the case then can you help me understand why?

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#85
post #84
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, it's funny you mention that. For the longest time I refused to run Adblock because it felt hypocritical. But eventually the experience got so bad I relented. I wouldn't say I have an incentive for internet ads to be successful. From the very beginning I advocated for revenue streams other than ads. And reddit is fairly diversified. I don't work there anymore anyway. I guess I just don't mind advertising if done…

I guess I just can't, no matter how hard I try, imagine why a person would think ads are good, especially targeted ads. The only reason I can come up with is that a person would willingly look past how odious advertising is because it pays their bills. If as you say that's not the case then can you help me understand why?

TL;DR: It gives me ideas of ways to spend money I was already going to spend, but now I have a place to start my research with some concrete ideas.

Well, I've given the example of live shows a couple of times. I've been to a few live shows that I learned about from targeted ads. Those were experiences I enjoyed and would not have learned about otherwise.

I'll pull up my Insta feed right now and list the targeted ads:

Osmo -- This is a game system for my kids that I already own. The ad isn't super useful, except I just learned about a new game they're releasing that I might want to get for my daughter. I may have eventually seen this elsewhere, but this is the first I'm seeing it.

Osmo again. But from a different vendor.

Lego -- They have some new sets that I didn't know about. I enjoy building legos with my kids, so now I know about a few new sets we might enjoy together.

Something called Soundbrenner. It's a gadget for musicians. I'm not a musician so this doesn't interest me. None the less, I am glad I know about this because I have musician friends who might be interested in something like this, so maybe the next time I talk to them I'll mention it, and they may be appreciative of me telling them because it can give them an idea of a new way to improve their play. Maybe they'll buy the gadget, maybe they'll find something similar, maybe they'll build something similar.

A charity for helping teachers during Christmas. This interests me. I support education and there is a good chance I'll make a donation to this cause. Now I'm happy that I found out about this charity.

An ad for a service that turns pictures of your pets into hand done oil paintings. I don't have pets, but one of my best friends does as do my parents, so there is a possibility I'll use this service as a Christmas gift.

A contest to win a Lamborghini featured in a lady gaga video. This is mistargeted and I have no interest.

A food sealing kitchen gadget. I'm going to forward this to my wife, who loves cooking gadgets, and then she'll check her cooking forums for someone who had a DIY version, but now she has a new idea to ask about.

Bed Bath and Beyond. Meh, don't really care.

A clothing company that follows the Tom's model of buy one give one. I don't like the clothes, but if I did, this is the kind of thing I might support if I need new clothes.

Some sort of prescription drug. The ad doesn't even say what it cures. So I have no interest in this. However, if it happened to be for an ailment that I actually have, I'd probably click through to find out more and be a jumping point for my own research.

Quicken Loans. I actually hate this ad because it encourages people to refinance their 30 year mortgage into a 15 year mortgage which is a terrible idea.

Another ad for musicians, this time an app. Same comment as above -- not interested but I may mention to a friend.

An ad for a new star wars game in VR. As it turns out, I recently bought an Occulus (from someone on HN actually) so this might be a game I would be interested in. I probably would have found out about this later when looking for new games, but this is the first I've heard of this game.

Another Lego ad, this time a different set.

Anyway, I could keep going, as the ads are endless (although they start to repeat). The point is, in most of these cases, I learned something new that I didn't know before.

Yes, in every case, they are trying to get me to spend money. But it's money I probably would have been spending anyway (Christmas presents, games my kids and I can play together, games I can play alone, charity donations). So I'm glad that I now have some ideas and places to start looking.

In a lot of cases, the ads are just jumping off points for research, but they give me new ideas I wouldn't have thought of.

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#86
post #4

Facebook's concept of informed consent is a cynical joke, and we can only laud companies and governments that rein in on their bordeline-illegal practices. I've recently signed up for Facebook to use Wit.ai, and have gone through account settings to lock down the account as much as possible. It took me about an hour to set everything to private in this new account, and I'm still not sure what would happen if I start…

When I had a facebook account (years ago) I would go through that hassle, and then a month later the settings would get reset and I'd have to do it again. I think there might have been some explanation like they were adding new privacy options or similar.

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#87
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you ok? I’ve never heard any anyone this thrilled about an ad experience in my life.

I'm fine, thanks. :) The purpose of ads is to inform people of things they wouldn't otherwise know about. In that regard, I appreciate good ads that tell me about things I would want to know about and didn't already. For example, some of the ads I get are for live shows (back in the before times). These are live shows that I enjoy going to, but would never have known about, because I don't know where to look for them…

On HN there seems to be a notion that ALL Ads are bad. No Ads should be allowed. And yet at the same time they are enjoying all the free tools and website build upon this business model.

And then also the notion that ALL data gathered intrude privacy. And somehow anyone on the Internet should be anonymous, may be that is not even the right word, may be invisible could be used to better describe it.

Privacy means people know what they're signing up for, in plain language, and repeatedly.”

There should be a middle ground somewhere. Not all Ads are bad. I love useful Ads, but I hate bad ads, whether that is placement or the actual ads itself. And I know people gets to discover new Games, Clothes, Shows, or other product they like through these ads.

It cant be an all or nothing world. Which the Internet in general likes to encourage, and there is no middle ground. We need to start looking at Ads as part of UX, and not just money / target optimising tools.

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you buy the floppy fish? The cat on Instagram seems to love that shit.

My cats (kittens, really) couldn't care less about it.

My cats are also extremely indifferent, but I actually bought 20 of them and used them in lieu of packing peanuts for a box of birthday presents for my partner.

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#89
post #60
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jedberg likely has a lot of cash to spend on random shit, he ran Site Reliability at Netflix which pays its entry level engineers $400K.

The large amount of debt ceded from society to jedberg in exchange for aiding and abetting the pollution of peoples' minds is morally reprehensible and disgusting to me

You think Netflix is polluting people’s minds? What’s OK with you, reading Wittgenstein over backgammon?

Re: FTC commissioner met with Apple regarding Facebook’s iOS 14 complaints

#90
post #85
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I just can't, no matter how hard I try, imagine why a person would think ads are good, especially targeted ads. The only reason I can come up with is that a person would willingly look past how odious advertising is because it pays their bills. If as you say that's not the case then can you help me understand why?

TL;DR: It gives me ideas of ways to spend money I was already going to spend, but now I have a place to start my research with some concrete ideas. Well, I've given the example of live shows a couple of times. I've been to a few live shows that I learned about from targeted ads. Those were experiences I enjoyed and would not have learned about otherwise. I'll pull up my Insta feed right now and list the targeted ads:…

Here's what I don't get: Why not just block the ads, which has two benefits:

1. Reduces profitability of advertising companies 2. Makes browsing the web sane (not to mention 30000% more pleasant)

And then after you've blocked all the ads you can just search for $subject_or_product_genre_that_interests_you, on your own terms, without worrying about scumbags tracking you and mining crypto via javascript in your browser?

Post reply on HN