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16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

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Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#81
post #9

The real competition is no longer Intel. Its AMD. Or if you're just buying Apple because you like them then there is no competition, you buy what they offer. I like fanless systems so I'll be watching Apple closely.

Huh? Apple is quite the opposite of fanless... They have literally the most devoted fanbase among computer vendors.

They mean fans as in the spinning plasticky thing that goes vroom

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#82
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the CPU can support mixed RAM. E.g. have the on-die 8GB of "fast" ram, and then support 2 external DIMMs or something for "overflow", file caching, etc.

That is a great idea. I think the software is going to be the hard part. You would need some kind of heuristic or software to manage moving memory between those two locations. That is just my initial thought I could be totally wrong.

Maybe the memory controller could handle this, spilling onto the slower memory, much like swapping.

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#83
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the CPU can support mixed RAM. E.g. have the on-die 8GB of "fast" ram, and then support 2 external DIMMs or something for "overflow", file caching, etc.

That is a great idea. I think the software is going to be the hard part. You would need some kind of heuristic or software to manage moving memory between those two locations. That is just my initial thought I could be totally wrong.

The same logic they already use for L1/L2 caching, and/or VM could pretty easily be adapted.

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#84

I love everything about the move to Apple Silicon with the exception of the decision to put memory on-die or in-package (not sure how it is configured). They call it 'Unified Memory'. It makes a lot of sense but I don't know if they are going to be able to pack enough memory in there. A lot of folks are fixated on CPU performance lately (which is rad) but I think that there is a tendency to ignore memory. I have 32gb…

What uses most of your ram when you need 16GB+?

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#85
post #18

Nearly universal praise for the M1 versus it's predecessor but I don't see how this really changes Apple's position the way he implies. Their machines are still far more expensive than Windows and can't use high-powered GPUs like AMD/Nvidia. The people who choose PC, still have the same incentives to do so. For most users, the faster performance will probably not be very noticeable. The reduced power consumption is t…

> Their machines are still far more expensive than Windows

Previous criticism was that you could get an equivalently powerful Windows device for cheaper from other manufacturers - This likely tips the scale and means that these Macbooks are very competitively priced considering their performance.

Then on top of that, you get battery life and build quality that runs circles around the closest competitor - so it does represent a really compelling offer on paper.

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#86
I'm just about to buy an X1 Carbon on Black Friday. I really dont want a MacBook air, but the screen and M1 speed/batt seem too good.

Maybe I should just wait. Ryzens will hopefully be coming more steadily next year and Intel should be cutting prices. 2021 is going to be a good year for hardware.

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#87
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the CPU can support mixed RAM. E.g. have the on-die 8GB of "fast" ram, and then support 2 external DIMMs or something for "overflow", file caching, etc.

That is a great idea. I think the software is going to be the hard part. You would need some kind of heuristic or software to manage moving memory between those two locations. That is just my initial thought I could be totally wrong.

Every modern general purpose computer already has multiple layers of memory. This would just be an additional layer. The virtual memory subsystems in the OS will handle this. At the end of the day it's just caches all the way down. A workstation with 16GiB of "on-chip" memory would be like a huge L4 cache for the say 512GiB of "standard" DDR4.

I really like OSTEP's chapters on virtual memory if you're interested in reading more[1].

[1] http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/OSTEP/vm-complete.pdf

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#88

Is anyone else thinking, what the f*ck? Are we in a new era of computing? It certainly feels that way when looking at these desktop class ARM chips, where performance doubled every year or so, just like back in the 80s and 90s.

This is the Apple equivalent of a Tesla showing up and out competing much more expensive cars on the performance. It feels like a huge disruption and probably Apple’s chance to gain significant PC market share.

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone on that thread was saying that the M1 may be using on-chip DRAM as L2/L3 cache. Not sure how true that is.

Don’t most processors use on-chip SRAM for their cache, which is faster than DRAM?

Yes. The best-known exception is IBM's recent(-ish) power processors, which use large eDRAM as a last-level cache. As far as I know, there's no widespread use of eDRAM on processors smaller than 14 nm.

Re: 16-inch MBP 2x slower than M1 MacBook Air in a real-world Rust compile

#90

I love everything about the move to Apple Silicon with the exception of the decision to put memory on-die or in-package (not sure how it is configured). They call it 'Unified Memory'. It makes a lot of sense but I don't know if they are going to be able to pack enough memory in there. A lot of folks are fixated on CPU performance lately (which is rad) but I think that there is a tendency to ignore memory. I have 32gb…

Isn't fast on-die/on-package (not sure either) memory access a key factor for Apple's gigantic performance leap, though? With memory pre-soldered on small notebooks for years now, it's not much of a difference for consumers anyway once more than 16GB becomes available.
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