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The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

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Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#81

Post by TulliusCicero »

yowlingcat wrote: post #44
CalChris wrote: post #14

As someone who has been dinged by dang, I appreciate moderation.

+1. I was having a really bad day several months ago and in a spat with a higher karma user who I really thought was in the wrong. @dang stepped in and just about banned me -- but stopped short and said this: > There's clearly a pattern here. I'm not going to ban you now because you've also posted good comments, but please don't post any more personal attacks to HN, and please avoid tedious tit-for-tat entanglements…

dang banned me for making a snarky, snipey comment about someone else's moral compass, and he was correct to do so.

He also let me back in after I apologized via email, which I appreciate.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#82

Post by Razengan »

When I first discovered HN, it was like a breath of fresh air compared to Reddit etc.

I have since lost faith.

HN likes to masquerade as some sort of upscale establishment, high and above the petty squabbles of Eslewhere, but in the end this place too devolves into a predictable echo chamber just like the rest of them, when it comes to any topic on which people have varied opinions.

This is not a place for dissenting views (such as this comment). This community does not brook any disagreement, because this service is not designed for it.

This did not happen overnight; for more than a year I have been watching perfectly fine comments getting buried in the gray for not siding with the prevailing mob on divisive topics. Even neutral, soft-spoken stances get struck down.

One can now reliably predict what the majority of comments are going to be like, just by reading the title of a post.

I've brought this up several times with dang, but apparently you're not able to appreciate these problems until you try participating as a regular user.

And let's not even mention the awful UI design with its vendetta against eyes, low light and small screens.

HN is broken, and one of the major indicators of a broken service is a tone-deaf management who continues to insist that everything is Working As Intended.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#83

Post by TulliusCicero »

dang wrote: post #59
iratewizard wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen several instances over the years. The one that stands out for me is a post about ICC suing a YC company. It was an astroturf-fest.

If you're going to make this sort of accusation, you should link to the thread so people can make up their own minds. With linkless insinuations, the actual story is usually significantly different from what is being insinuated.

This is a good policy. I've noticed the same thing in my moderation efforts. The amount of gross exaggeration by some users is pretty stark.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#84

Post by augusto-moura »

rv-de wrote: post #61
doc_gunthrop wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what impressed me when I first came across HN - the signal-to-noise ratio. The comments sections were always filled with thoughtfully written comments that provided useful insights into interesting topics. Thank you @dang for your diligence and commitment to the task.

username checks out

this is a thread about nonsense jokey comments, have you learned nothing? haha

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#85

Post by Raphmedia »

I've been confronted by Dang a long while ago in an account I lost the access to since. I was hurt, but it was also a very educative experience.

Most of my life has been spent moderating online communities. Needless to say why, I am trying to mimic the style of moderation I have been on the receiving end of.

Keep up the good work!

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#86

Post by InitialLastName »

dang wrote: post #72
alexashka wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, poll people who invest in YC start-ups if they'd be willing to invest in start-ups that improve upon HackerNews forums. That should generate a few million. Then hire somebody with a proven track record to oversee proposals for additions to existing HackerNews. In other words, get money, then crowdsource ideas, then pay people to implement ideas with most votes, then provide beta tests, then provide HackerNews ad…

That's not a concrete suggestion, but rather a meta-strategy for getting those. Alas, I think it would run up against hard economics super quickly. Forums like HN aren't big businesses, and efforts to make them into big businesses exert pressures under which they turn into something else. This is probably the most important thing for understanding HN, actually: it ended up in a sweet spot where it makes sense for YC…

Relatedly (since we've got you here), rather than blocking bad users it would be nice to be able to tag specific users in a way that shows up on the comment feed. For example, there are a few users whose comments consistently impress me with their depth, and whose commentary in a thread often flags a deeper conversation on a topic.

It might just be because I have a terrible memory for usernames, but it would be nice to be able to immediately see "Founder/CEO of Initech" or "Expert Bananacurist" next to the name.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#87

Post by NiceWayToDoIT »

Funny enough, listening to the narrator's voice gave me an impression of very serious and somewhat condescending note. Personally, I do not consider HN in that way.

I think about HN as a place where we share ideas, playful place regardless of how complex a topic is.

The main point is to put in the spotlight ideas, not people. Attacking an idea is ok, attacking people is not.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#88

Post by dang »

InitialLastName wrote: post #86
dang wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a concrete suggestion, but rather a meta-strategy for getting those. Alas, I think it would run up against hard economics super quickly. Forums like HN aren't big businesses, and efforts to make them into big businesses exert pressures under which they turn into something else. This is probably the most important thing for understanding HN, actually: it ended up in a sweet spot where it makes sense for YC…

Relatedly (since we've got you here), rather than blocking bad users it would be nice to be able to tag specific users in a way that shows up on the comment feed. For example, there are a few users whose comments consistently impress me with their depth, and whose commentary in a thread often flags a deeper conversation on a topic. It might just be because I have a terrible memory for usernames, but it would be nice…

Do you mean a private list of your own tags that the UI would then display to you? Interesting idea.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#89

Post by joe_the_user »

Razengan wrote: post #82

When I first discovered HN, it was like a breath of fresh air compared to Reddit etc. I have since lost faith. HN likes to masquerade as some sort of upscale establishment, high and above the petty squabbles of Eslewhere, but in the end this place too devolves into a predictable echo chamber just like the rest of them, when it comes to any topic on which people have varied opinions. This is not a place for dissenting…

HN likes to masquerade as some sort of upscale establishment, high and above the petty squabbles of Eslewhere, but in the end this place too devolves into a predictable echo chamber just like the rest of them, when it comes to any topic on which people have varied opinions.

This isn't a place where dissenting opinions get upvotes. Why should they? I think a fair of posters with plenty of karma are still willing to post things that get massively downvoted and cause a reaction. I'm getting better at it. I keep a mental model of how I've reacted to HN, look at the page - "there's the reaction, down five or ten points", "hmm, I'm guess down and up votes balanced", "ah, that was a crowd pleaser".

I don't think hn is more broken than America or the Internet or whatever.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#90

Post by throw1234651234 »

BoppreH wrote: post #21

Obligatory appreciation post for dang. Swift invisible action when facing bad faith actors; sporadic public call outs for quick attitude correction; and consistent helpful presence like multi-page reminders and clarifications on the inner workings of this forum. I find your style of moderation to be the golden standard on how to foster a healthy online community.

I will join. I was shadow-banned or something years ago and he told me I am posting into the void. Was really nice to know.
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