Earlier quoted context omitted.
The EU ministers do want us to have a right to encryption. They just want to be able to decrypt it.
That is not encrypted then.
They think it is.
EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
81–90 of 780 posts
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#82I'm in my early 40s. Up until I was ~35 I was very strongly against this, sort of like most you. Now I feel the EU in general (some member states a lot worse than others) has backed itself into a corner because of the utterly failed integration efforts, union-wide. I live in a EU nation that has seen a very high rise in violent (and sometimes frankly horrible) crime over the past decade. As a dad of a 1-year old daug…
What makes you think that this will reduce violent crime in any meaningful way? The guy who mugs you isn't going to go on Messenger and send out a quick "brb gonna mug someone" message. And they definitely won't if they know the government is listening. And regardless, we trade freedoms for risk of death all the time. We would have far less crime if no one was allowed to leave their house without an ankle monitor and…
I don't think he's talking about the guy who mugs him.
More like about the guy who mows down a crowd with an automatic weapon, the guy who drives a truck through the center of a Christmas market or the guy who blows up a metro station.
That kind of people.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#83This shows that the attack was planned by the powers that be, if not planned at least not actively blocked. It was 1 guy with a weapon that the Austrian secret service was warned about. The media made it 6 people doing a huge thing, in the end it was just 1 guy with an AK47 apparently. Austrian intelligence was warned by the Slovaks about him and they let him do regardless. Just like the 9/11 stuff, they knew what wa…
> We need to leave the EU ASAP. I'd rather not. Can we fix it?
The kinds of people who call for eliminating international institutions rather than reforming them are generally less interested in the actual problem they cause and more interested in NIMBYing other human beings.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#84I'm in my early 40s. Up until I was ~35 I was very strongly against this, sort of like most you. Now I feel the EU in general (some member states a lot worse than others) has backed itself into a corner because of the utterly failed integration efforts, union-wide. I live in a EU nation that has seen a very high rise in violent (and sometimes frankly horrible) crime over the past decade. As a dad of a 1-year old daug…
The general idea of “governments should have powers not available to the general population” isn’t one I oppose.
However: the way to get the security you want for your family is not to mess with encryption. Mess with that and everything breaks.
It would genuinely be less bad to require every display to, on command, transmit to the authorities what it is currently showing, to the than to mess with encryption.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#85Always a terrorist. This is starting to sound like a well known recipe for pushing new laws of this sort.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#86Ultimately the problem with any idea like this is that encryption is as basic as mathematics and trying to ban it will only harm everyday people and the dumb criminal.
The criminals that want to stay hidden will continue to do so because you will always find open source projects that provides encryption.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that you can’t leave any room for interpretation, because governments generally interpret things as liberally as they can in their favor, to the brink of absurdity. In other words, “encryption” needs to be listed there as a right, to remove any room for interpretation. Or explicitly listed as an example of a more general right, like the right to private speech (or whatever you want to call it).
The EU ministers do want us to have a right to encryption. They just want to be able to decrypt it.
Considering governments have about the same capacity to store data securely as a twelve-year-old, those decryption keys basically open up the door for everyone who is willing to put the effort into retrieving them.
And considering the retrieval would certainly be breaking at least a few laws, the people who are going to pull it off are going to be
- nation states
- APTs
- large criminal organizations
- large corporations (corporate espionage)
So you arguably defeat the entire purpose of having encrypted data streams. Sure, the barrier of going and "stealing the keys" is still there, but given the track record large governments have at not leaking data, it is safe to say there would be little barrier aside from legal ramifications if caught.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you can have wiretapping you don't have E2E encryption. So I think this would be a ban on E2E encryption, not on encryption in general of course but I think that should be self evident.
If you're not the subject of the wiretapping, your connection will continue to use E2E, it's not complicated. Yes, wiretapped connections are not E2E while they're being monitored, obviously
Soo, how do you handle this on the client?
If wiretapped, then dummy_encrypt(message) else encrypt(message) ?
Or will they just dummy_encrypt anything and read the stuff that's "wiretapped" at the moment? Because that sounds way more probable.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We probably have left at the last minute. If that means you’re British: the GCHQ initiated this. Nobody is more under video surveillance than you guys. Enjoy your chat loicense.
We can now vote for a party who can try to fix this. It wouldn't be possible if that was EU wide.
Brexit was founded on the misunderstanding that it was "faceless unelected bureaucrats" that run the EU. I'd argue Britons wielded more power than most others in the EU, and that the EU parliament is quite a lot more democratic than the British one. The british are now stuck with the UK parliament without adult supervision.
Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]
#90I'm in my early 40s. Up until I was ~35 I was very strongly against this, sort of like most you. Now I feel the EU in general (some member states a lot worse than others) has backed itself into a corner because of the utterly failed integration efforts, union-wide. I live in a EU nation that has seen a very high rise in violent (and sometimes frankly horrible) crime over the past decade. As a dad of a 1-year old daug…
You do know that "think of the kids" is a terrible argument?
And, more importantly, why do you think that your daughter won't want the same freedoms that you had? Or should she be protected from those freedoms?
Don't get me wrong, douchebags exist. Nonetheless, however well intentioned any of this starts off, it opens the road to mass surveillance at a level that was never practical before. And that is just as a big a danger, if not bigger, than any you might see today, and I don't discount extreme religious nuts.