A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career • Hacker News Board

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#81

Post by etergri » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

talentedcoin wrote: post #74

dathinab wrote: post #46

I wonder why it's flagged, the article is clearly trying the best to be reasonable impartial. It's also well known that sometimes, in some countries maybe more then others, decisions wrt. children are biased toward mother's. I have seen one such case in my environment myself. I belive it is important that such Curt decisions are based on the combination of the situation both parents are in and guidelines in a imparti…

Because it's a wall-of-text screed that's unlikely to lead to an interesting discussion on HN.

This basically means you didn't even read it, good job.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#82

Post by cgriswald » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

tomcat27 wrote: post #5

The story is same in many countries, unfortunately. Amicable out of court settlement seems to be best.

> Amicable out of court settlement seems to be best.

This was my approach, and ultimately I got what I wanted because it was fair and because the courts here are generally fair. Although we didn't go to court, knowing how the court would rule was hugely supportive in me offering a fair deal and standing my ground.

It's almost impossible to amicably settle out of court, though. There are too many people on both sides trying to stir the pot to get the most for their client. If you're in this situation, you, as a client, need to be very clear about what you are trying to achieve with your lawyer. Their default is to go in guns blazing. I did this with my lawyer, and he only unleashed the nukes when necessary. My ex did not (and for reasons, it was very obvious to me that her lawyer was in charge, not her). It ended up costing both of us quite a bit. Just as one example, we spent five hours paying a private judge, two lawyers, and two accountants to ultimately reach a final agreement. The agreement we reached? The one my side offered in the first five minutes.

Then, even when it's over, maybe it's not. My ex's new husband convinced her to sue me over child support. More thousands in lawyers fees later, and nothing changed because it didn't have a chance in hell.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#83

Post by etergri » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

tomcat27 wrote: post #5

The story is same in many countries, unfortunately. Amicable out of court settlement seems to be best.

impossible if the woman/partner has a mental disorder (e.g. NPD) or is hellbent on punishing you, even for stupid reasons

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#84

Post by talentedcoin » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 6:46 PM UTC

etergri wrote: post #81

talentedcoin wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a wall-of-text screed that's unlikely to lead to an interesting discussion on HN.

This basically means you didn't even read it, good job.

I did, thank you very much, and I thought it was tendentiously-argued and bitter. There was some interesting info in there but it's hard to tell when it's peppered with comments like "in spite of other idiots" ...

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#85

Post by batt4good » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

This freaks me out as someone who briefly thought about getting married but largely talked myself out of it after a close relative (who's much more social and better at relationships) ended up in a horrible divorce with a kid involved.

To date, I don't really see the advantages of being married - seems like a whole lot of risk to take on someone who will likely change in 3-5 years.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#86

Post by miker64 » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #72

miker64 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a hetro marriage, my kids come to me for 'mothering,' in about equal measure as they do to my wife. And they did that when they were infants as well. My wife did not do well without a solid nights sleep, and I was used to oncall work, all night nursing was me. This was equitable, as well as playing to our strengths and weaknesses. There is no reason to have iron rules of we must each do every parenting action…

That's great, but sharing my experience was not a call for others to add their own experience or to critique mine. If you want to share, please share on the top-level comment.

You commented on my comment, using your experience to support a claim that societal pressure about who parents (and how) is biologically driven.

I countered with my own experience that it is not.

Ancedata all around.

I'm glad your system works for your family. Similarly, I'm glad ours works for our family. But from both stories we can see that what you claim as a biological fact is not so clear.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#87

Post by etergri » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

talentedcoin wrote: post #84

etergri wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This basically means you didn't even read it, good job.

I did, thank you very much, and I thought it was tendentiously-argued and bitter. There was some interesting info in there but it's hard to tell when it's peppered with comments like "in spite of other idiots" ...

"...who think they're always right". Thanks once again for not reading the rest.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#88

Post by zepto » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

miker64 wrote: post #57

zepto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That becomes somewhat circular. It is impossible to reduce the social pressures on women to parent without simultaneously reducing the social pressures on men not to parent . Clearly in this case, the man wanted to parent. The thing stopping him was the power of the court’s decision. In the presence of a legal framework like this the only reasonable choice for a man is to assume he is expected not to parent, since th…

A question I have here, is _was_ he parenting before the divorce? The court has only the testimony and financial state of the two people on which to go with. If he was the one making the money, and she was home with the child, what does that say about _who_ was doing what work? And yes, it would be good for there to be more pressure on men to parent, and on there being more acceptable models of parenting partnerships…

Ok, so you think he might be lying.

That’s always possible, but it seems irrelevant to the argument.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#89

Post by zepto » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

miker64 wrote: post #50

xenihn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the courts should impose their will on society in situations where equality needs to be enforced. Just imagine if the process you're describing had been used to stop segregation in the United States.

but the courts enforcing desegregation did work at the societal pressure level. What I'm saying is that denying the fact that a partner gave up career growth to parent does not change that they did, and does not stop the pressure upon women to do so. It should not be tied to gender, it should be tied to who gave up paying work to do the child rearing labor. Spousal and child support _are_ where divorce courts are inf…

“Spousal and child support _are_ where divorce courts are influencing equity, by having the parent who's career was not impacted by parental duties provide monetary support to the parent who was.“

This is quite clearly not true because of maternal preference, which is openly acknowledged by the courts.

They are not in fact basing their decision on who’s career was not impacted.

They are making the decision based on the sex of the parents, and simply recapitulating traditional gender role assumptions.

I’m not making a case that it shouldn’t be this way.

My point is that we shouldn’t gaslight ourselves about what is going on.

Re: A divorce in Italy destroyed my researcher career

#90

Post by talentedcoin » Tue, Nov 03, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

etergri wrote: post #87

talentedcoin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did, thank you very much, and I thought it was tendentiously-argued and bitter. There was some interesting info in there but it's hard to tell when it's peppered with comments like "in spite of other idiots" ...

"...who think they're always right". Thanks once again for not reading the rest.

Seems like you have an axe to grind. Sorry if my not liking a rude, poorly-written article bothers you.