I so wholeheartedly and completely agree with Joel. Things that really "make" a team:
1) Having lunch together 2) Having booze together 3) Going out together regularly
Joel Spolsky: Lunch
81–90 of 210 posts
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#82Joel is obviously not aware of the differences between introverts and extroverts, which seems weird for someone who works in a field with a lot of introverts. I'm not down on his idea of eating lunch together - it's probably fun and productive. But if someone spots me eating lunch by myself while reading (a book, a magazine, on my phone, on my computer), it's not because I "don't like people," or, sadder, that I pret…
I'm introvert but I loved eating with my coworkers. It's very different from the energy consuming socialization that you would experience at parties or otherwise.
Then again, I didn't eat with all of my coworkers, just my friends.
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#83You can achieve the same effect with smoking pauses:
1. your mouth isn't stuffed and you can and want to talk during smoking. It's reflexive - as soon as you light the cigarette you're looking for a conversation;
2. you have more pauses per day;
3. the pauses are shorter;
Are there any downsides? Well, some say it's unhealthy... Anyway, I'm not smoking anymore, but back when I was, we solved lots of problems and came up with tons of ideas while smoking.
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what you may have experienced is a different phenomenon related to peer pressuring people to agree with everyone else. I'm not sure that a group of people eating together regularly normally devolves into something that one would describe as "cult-like".
I describe it as "cult-like", because they are essentially taking the one independent choice you have during your work day (what, where and how to spend your lunch break) and making you conform to the "norm". I think it's probably a great thing at FogCreek, because everyone is isolated in private offices all day, so forcing everyone to come together is probably a good idea. But I don't think it would be the best idea…
> they are essentially taking the one independent choice you have during your work day (what, where and how to spend your lunch break) and making you conform to the "norm".
Wow, you really need to get perspective or a different job.
I have tons of choices every day at work. Lunch is one of the more mundane (but important) ones. If I was offered the option to go to a company cafeteria (I've worked at places like this before), I'd probably go as often as not.
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#85I have always hated this and probably always will. I have rarely eaten lunch with my work mates. Just a few reasons why: 1. I don't want to talk about work at lunch. 2. I want to get out of the office and get some fresh air. 3. I often want to get away from the very people that Joel suggests spending time with on my break. 4. I'm a "food outlier". I hate pizza, deli, and fast food. I won't eat it away from work. Why…
If you worked at Fog Creek, you'd already be spending much of the day alone. Joel believes everyone has the right not to be interrupted while they are trying to work and gives all developers private offices. Lunch is a pleasant contrast to this.
You work at a company similar to some I've worked at. The day is constant interruption i.e. low-quality conversation and low-quality work, so lunch feels like more of the same and you seek the pleasant contrast of actually having some time to yourself for once.
So, you and Joel are seeking the same thing, except his company is better run than your boss's company so the quiet and noisy times are in the right places.
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#86Do any other introverts feel this arrangement would affect them negatively? Subjected to this setup, it's likely I'd perform worse.
I work with some loud opinionated people all day, and look forward to my quiet walk around a park each day. Often I'm walking on complicated problems, and the last thing I need is an hour of listening to pointless arguments about movies or whatever.
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#87You know, my 1st instinct is to disagree vehemently with the sentiment here.
But if I reflect upon past job experiences, more often we (at least a good bit of the team) ate lunch together, the greater and more harmonious the team experience was.
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#88I so wholeheartedly and completely agree with Joel. Things that really "make" a team: 1) Having lunch together 2) Having booze together 3) Going out together regularly
What about introverted people, who will do good work, but prefer their own company at lunch time?
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#89It seems there's an obvious middle ground which doesn't seem to have been mentioned by Joel or anyone else. Being compelled to have lunch with colleagues every day sucks. Sometimes you are feeling cranky, want some fresh air, need to run errands, or have a hot date. Not having the opportunity to lunch with colleagues also sucks. It provides a great opportunity for employees to get to know each other, make friends, an…
One compromise is like one of my previous teams did: One day of the week is team lunch day (and a longer lunch at that).
This isn't so quotidien, but still has a bonding effect, diffusing group tensions while satisfying the need for self-time.
I think daily mandatory would be weird, but I'd be up for 1-2 days a week where the team meets over food.
Re: Joel Spolsky: Lunch
#90I have always hated this and probably always will. I have rarely eaten lunch with my work mates. Just a few reasons why: 1. I don't want to talk about work at lunch. 2. I want to get out of the office and get some fresh air. 3. I often want to get away from the very people that Joel suggests spending time with on my break. 4. I'm a "food outlier". I hate pizza, deli, and fast food. I won't eat it away from work. Why…
10. "Enforced association" is phoney. I'd rather just make my own friends at work or out of work. So what if it appears to be a clique? All that means is that we are humans acting naturally.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I've always detested these "team-building" initiatives that intrude into my own private social life. To every company that tells its employees that "we're all a big family": I have my own family, thank you very much.
At the best place I've ever worked, the whole product team would frequently have lunch together. We were happy to do so and we did it on our own, because we really liked each other, not because the company tried to "cultivate" this habit.
You know what that company did right? It made sure to hire top-notch people. When you're surrounded by people who are smart, capable and interesting, when you're surrounded by people whose achievements constantly challenge you to do better, when you're surrounded by people you respect and admire, then there's no need to worry about lunch.