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When will web browsers be complete?

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Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#81
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This essay could've been written in 2002...about Internet Explorer. I've been reading a whitepaper from ~1997 on Microsoft's Distributed COM (DCOM) last night, and as I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking: this is microservices. And it was really more than that - at least on the surface, this was microservices + orchestration + autoscaling + serverless, as well as, via Internet Explorer, component-based UIs wi…

link to the paper?

Provided in an edit.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#83
post #42
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 20 years it will be impossible to manually browse to an unapproved "unsafe" URL in a general purpose browser.

Well, its hardly possible to manually browse an unapproved unsafe URL even today. Ever tried to browse a site with a self-signed certificate? In most browsers you have to do a lot of extra clicks to get in. But there will always be special purpose browsers. There is "TOR browser" today, and we will have "vintage web browsers" the same way we have CLI/TLI browsers still today (thinking of elinks and lynx), or the same…

iPhone doesn't allow true 3rd party browsers only reskinned Safari. Apple even removed a browser for extending safari too much [0]. So while there will be vintage web browsers, normal people may not have access to them.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/20/21524665/stadium-stadia-...

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#84
post #30

When this essay started with "As someone who has used the Web since 2007" I immediately felt old, so thanks for that. As someone who has been using the Web since 1994 (and I feel like I was late to the game), I can assure the author their perspective has a lot of recency bias and this isn't something to worry about, in the general sense. Or worry about it, because it already happened a while ago. Take your pick. Loca…

> This essay could've been written in 2002...about Internet Explorer. I've been reading a whitepaper from ~1997 on Microsoft's Distributed COM (DCOM) last night, and as I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking: this is microservices. And it was really more than that - at least on the surface, this was microservices + orchestration + autoscaling + serverless, as well as, via Internet Explorer, component-based UIs wi…

The thing holding DCOM back was that the protocol was closed source and unspecified. It’s very difficult to make Microsoft’s version of DCE RPC work with other implementations let alone their proprietary object extensions.

If they had wanted interoperability, they could have implemented something more standards based as IBM did with SOM. But requiring Windows for all parts of distributed systems is very limiting.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#85
post #30

When this essay started with "As someone who has used the Web since 2007" I immediately felt old, so thanks for that. As someone who has been using the Web since 1994 (and I feel like I was late to the game), I can assure the author their perspective has a lot of recency bias and this isn't something to worry about, in the general sense. Or worry about it, because it already happened a while ago. Take your pick. Loca…

> This essay could've been written in 2002...about Internet Explorer. I've been reading a whitepaper from ~1997 on Microsoft's Distributed COM (DCOM) last night, and as I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking: this is microservices. And it was really more than that - at least on the surface, this was microservices + orchestration + autoscaling + serverless, as well as, via Internet Explorer, component-based UIs wi…

A lot of stuff were "microservices" before the name was coined. SOA (as in service-oriented-architecture) was definitely a thing.

I worked for a company whose software was/is based on CORBA and let me tell you, that thing really smells like microservices-before-it-was-cool.

You had a naming service, and each component would connect to the naming service on startup and resolve the endpoint for the components it needed.

And each piece of software had a component called ORB (object-request-broker) that was used to represent remote stuff (remote objects/endpoints). You could invoke method calls on this object (kinda/sorta, i'm making it simpler here) and it would forward the call in background, hiding the networking/serializing/deserializing details.

That whole things kinda reminds me of protocolbuffers, etcd and microservices. By using a cluster manager (Veritas Cluster Manager) you had a service groups, something that looked like a pod, in a way.

-----------

It's been a while, but I've started thinking that there's nothing really new. The problems we're facing are pretty much always the same, it's just that the solutions improve on different areas. Kubernetes for example helps a lot on the scaling problem and the standardization (both ops team and dev team have a common lingo, the kubernetes object model -- pods, deployments, services, requests&limits etc).

EDIT:

Just skimmed the article... Yup, DCOM was a competing alternative to CORBA.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This essay could've been written in 2002...about Internet Explorer. I've been reading a whitepaper from ~1997 on Microsoft's Distributed COM (DCOM) last night, and as I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking: this is microservices. And it was really more than that - at least on the surface, this was microservices + orchestration + autoscaling + serverless, as well as, via Internet Explorer, component-based UIs wi…

A lot of stuff were "microservices" before the name was coined. SOA (as in service-oriented-architecture) was definitely a thing. I worked for a company whose software was/is based on CORBA and let me tell you, that thing really smells like microservices-before-it-was-cool. You had a naming service, and each component would connect to the naming service on startup and resolve the endpoint for the components it needed…

Interestingly enough, the "N" in "GNOME" was due to the fact that it was initially based on CORBA, and used a C-language ORB called orbit (IIRC).

If someone older than me would like to chime in and add some details, that would be lovely.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#87
post #30

When this essay started with "As someone who has used the Web since 2007" I immediately felt old, so thanks for that. As someone who has been using the Web since 1994 (and I feel like I was late to the game), I can assure the author their perspective has a lot of recency bias and this isn't something to worry about, in the general sense. Or worry about it, because it already happened a while ago. Take your pick. Loca…

> This essay could've been written in 2002...about Internet Explorer. I've been reading a whitepaper from ~1997 on Microsoft's Distributed COM (DCOM) last night, and as I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking: this is microservices. And it was really more than that - at least on the surface, this was microservices + orchestration + autoscaling + serverless, as well as, via Internet Explorer, component-based UIs wi…

This is true for a great number of things. Our industry has a terrible collective memory - we're at such a rush to push aside the old in favour of new shiny stuff only to have to rediscover why it was useful (or not) later.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#88
This focus on chrome os gets it completely backwards. Google doesn't expand chrome's capabilities because they need it for chrome OS, google invests in chrome and chrome OS, because it supports their search engine business. Google wants anything you might want to do with your computer to start by searching google, not some kind of app store. See: https://www.gwern.net/Complement

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#89
i am still baffled that we haven't moved away from this old html thing and made new protocols and new ways to draw UI over internet already. html protocol and markup language was never designed to do what we're doing with it today to begin with. and don't get me started with javascript. i guess backwards compatibility is more important than solid architecture and advancing the technology.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#90
post #68
post #5

"There is not much left for a Web browser to cover" - this reminded me of the famous "physics is mostly complete at this point." Web (browser) is the only cross-platform operating system, even if some standards say otherwise. I'm sure we'll see docker-style virtual web environments, cross-machine abstractions to simulate datacenters for distributed computing (GPU and such), PWA-style webapps bootable from USB sticks…

Physics are not changing, it's our understanding of physics that changes, and yes we are very far from understanding them correctly. The real questions are: - For how long do we have energy to keep not understanding things. - Are the understandings leading to real improvements or just more total energy consumption (for every energy reduction there is an equal or more increase in total energy consumption)? I'm commite…

> Physics are not changing, it's our understanding of physics that changes

No, it's right the way it is. Physics is a science. Physics is the understanding. The universe is terrain and sciences are maps -- though some are more localized and specialized than others.

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