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Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

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Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#81

Post by dumbfoundded »

zdragnar wrote: post #34
tonystubblebine wrote: post #6

As a business owner, when taxes are low, I see that as an incentive to pocket profits. But when taxes are high, I see that as an incentive to hide the profits by investing in the future. I know this isn't always the case with everyone. And especially investors have a case that higher corporate taxes reduce the value of their investments, possibly to the point of not making them. But this incentive is so blatantly obv…

Strange. Business owner friends of mine have taken the opposite approach over the years. Taxes low? Start up something new, get it going. Taxes go up again? Sell it off (if they haven't already) and go back to early retirement doing whatever. Maybe it is largely the type of business that behavior changes. Their last venture was starting up an aquaponics farm in a borderline urban / suburban area, though I haven't kep…

I don't understand the logic. If corporate taxes are high but capital gains are low, that may make sense. In a general sense, you spend money to avoid showing profit.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#82

Post by Dylan16807 »

muststopmyths wrote: post #15
RivieraKid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? (I mostly agree but it's not a strong opinion)

My guess: because they hope to be wealthy some day.

So what?

I hope to be wealthy and not pull up the ladder behind me.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#83

Post by tonystubblebine »

s_dev wrote: post #46
tonystubblebine wrote: post #6

As a business owner, when taxes are low, I see that as an incentive to pocket profits. But when taxes are high, I see that as an incentive to hide the profits by investing in the future. I know this isn't always the case with everyone. And especially investors have a case that higher corporate taxes reduce the value of their investments, possibly to the point of not making them. But this incentive is so blatantly obv…

>As a business owner, when taxes are low, I see that as an incentive to pocket profits. But when taxes are high Where do you live that taxes are as volatile as petrol prices? Taxes change in Ireland but in terms of decades.

The United States. Corporate tax rate dropped from 35 to 21 in 2016. There is talk of reraising them and so I'm mostly projecting my behavior if they do get raised.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#84

Post by yboris »

vmception wrote: post #37
RivieraKid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? (I mostly agree but it's not a strong opinion)

Hard to value creating expensive compliance and easy game-ability. Not easily convertible to cash. Doesn't fix the government's spending pattern or plug its budget hole unless it resorts to full on expropriation. Not competitive.

I heard an idea: "you must declare all your assets, if an asset is found that you're not claiming, it becomes government property".

So if you try to game the system by not claiming a vacation home, it just becomes public property.

Thoughts?

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#86

Post by maxharris »

Wealth taxes are a bad idea because they target everyone with wealth, regardless of the actual views they hold, regardless of the degree to which they have personally contributed to the collapse we are facing.

The real inequality we have today is being perpetuated by outdated regulations, primarily from the 1930s. It's also being perpetuated by people that invest in Warren Buffet-style "value" stocks, which extract actual rents from people, while delivering no technological improvements. Housing is 80% of the inequality problem, and if we are going to fix that, we have to stop making it illegal to build enough homes for people that need them. And to do it cheaply enough, we have to turn to automated custom home manufacturing, which means overcoming the objections of labor unions.

For example, I just saw this in the LA Times - "Labor unions, environmentalists are biggest opponents of Gov. Brown’s affordable housing plan":

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-labor-enviro-hou...

NB: I think we need new, distributed structures to replace labor unions, because the goal they serve is an important one. The existing ones concentrate power at the top, and have become just another corrupt institution.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#87

Post by [deleted] »

zdragnar wrote: post #34
tonystubblebine wrote: post #6

As a business owner, when taxes are low, I see that as an incentive to pocket profits. But when taxes are high, I see that as an incentive to hide the profits by investing in the future. I know this isn't always the case with everyone. And especially investors have a case that higher corporate taxes reduce the value of their investments, possibly to the point of not making them. But this incentive is so blatantly obv…

Strange. Business owner friends of mine have taken the opposite approach over the years. Taxes low? Start up something new, get it going. Taxes go up again? Sell it off (if they haven't already) and go back to early retirement doing whatever. Maybe it is largely the type of business that behavior changes. Their last venture was starting up an aquaponics farm in a borderline urban / suburban area, though I haven't kep…

[deleted]

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#88

Post by maerF0x0 »

I will say that this article points out a CNBC article on "$400k in a big city...". And FAIR seems to be missing that both earnings _and expenses growth_ have been growing very fast for those in cities.

Progressive taxation of someone earning $100k per year in San Francisco or NYC is hardly fair. At least prior to covid19 causing a crash in the rental market one could expect to pay ~$2500 a month to share a 2bedroom place. That's spending 42% of take home pay to have roommates! Not to mention everything else costs more, a meal out, riding the bus, getting your bicycle repaired, clothing etc.

$400k per year is about what it takes to run a middle class family w/ 2 kids in such a city. -- They're already paying $162,121 in taxes annually.

When we progressively tax those who actually have less than the median after CoL, we're being unfair (IMO)

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#89

Post by astrea »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #49

What frustrates me about this whole argument over wealth taxes is that the arguments aren't grounded in facts. The reality is that we "pay" for inequality with reduced productivity. A great example of this is "single family home neighborhoods" in urban areas. They have no societal benefit, they are essentially subsidized land use patterns for the well off, and it makes it harder for less well of folks to move to area…

> A great example of this is "single family home neighborhoods" in urban areas. They have no societal benefit, they are essentially subsidized land use patterns for the well off, and it makes it harder for less well of folks to move to areas where they can get a better job/improve their lot in life and grow the economy.

I've seen this talking point twice now this week. What's the alternative? We all live in crowded multi-family buildings? We all live in squalor for the sake of a few saved acres in a country with vast amounts of land?

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#90

Post by JamesBarney »

muststopmyths wrote: post #15
RivieraKid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? (I mostly agree but it's not a strong opinion)

My guess: because they hope to be wealthy some day.

There are other reasons to oppose them like they historically bring in very little money, they're a pain in the ass to administer, capital flight. Some evidence for this are parts of Europe is abandoning their wealth taxes.

If you want to raise money or reduce inequality there are better ways to do it. Income tax, capital gains, inheritance, etc...

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