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Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

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Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#81

Post by pshirshov »

AlexandrB wrote: post #53

Both major consumer OS vendors seem hell-bent on bringing the OS layer under their complete control. As a power user, it's very frustrating. Meanwhile "desktop" Linux still kind of sucks, just like it did 10 years ago. I don't have much hope of seeing a compelling, unified UX out of Linux in my lifetime.

Desktop linux still kind of sucks because there aren't enough people writing desktop linux software which does not suck and not enough people paying for that.

Also there are enough people in linux community who still hate/disapprove all the integration efforts (e.g. systemd). And the thing linux sucks the most is integration.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#82

Post by ClearAndPresent »

dmd wrote: post #45
thewebcount wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow! This probably explains why every now and then when I wake my MacBook Pro from sleep it says no keyboard is connected! I thought I had some hardware problem on a basically brand new machine. Glad to hear it's only a stupid software problem!

If you're using Cisco Anyconnect, blame that for that particular keyboard issue.

Or Wireguard.

The absurdity of sitting in front of a frozen keyboard and trackpad for up to a minute before I can unlock the screensaver on a 2k machine has driven me spare. And now has driven away from these astounding lemons.

This is the last Apple laptop for me.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#83

Post by gruez »

CountSessine wrote: post #40
Skunkleton wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that Apple could bypass kexts too? This is an issue of trust, not a technical issue.

Try to bypass kexts and you’re just asking for kernel stability issues and Mac customer crashes. Pushing these guys out of the kernel lets Apple cheat them and Mac users clean and easy.

>Try to bypass kexts and you’re just asking for kernel stability issues and Mac customer crashes

why would that be the case? All you'd need to do is provide some sort of private network api, and only allow apple signed code to use it.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#84

Post by smnrchrds »

Apple has been more and more acting on the belief that when you buy one of their devices, you don't buy and own the device. You rather purchase an experience—a service—from Apple. They don't have to let you run your own software on your device or poke around the internals. That is not part of the experience offered. You should use the device as Apple intends it to be used.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#85

Post by Wowfunhappy »

threatofrain wrote: post #77
addicted wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this situation the question isn’t about whether or not Apple can be trusted. Apple has clearly betrayed users’ trust in this situation. People don’t install Little Snitch only to prevent nefarious third party activity. Some may want to know what traffic is going to and from their computers. Other may want to block all traffic for testing and/or research purposes. I can trust that Apple is not doing something nefar…

> any backdoors Apple builds for its own apps Apple hasn't weakened the security of their devices to provide a secret way in, in fact, they made their systems even more robust. The question absolutely is whether Apple can be trusted. Little Snitch works for other apps, just not Apple's apps. The remaining slice of the pie you're arguing for is whether or not we can trust Apple. So what delta in security and trust ove…

> Apple hasn't weakened the security of their devices to provide a secret way in, in fact, they made their systems even more robust.

I'd consider poking a hole in firewalls to be providing "a secret way in", particularly in the context of Little Snitch. This isn't some antivirus bloatware that comes preinstalled, or a firewall imposed by corporate networks. The entire pitch of Little Snitch is that it enables you, the user, to monitor and control any bit of traffic that leaves your machine. No one was asking for Apple to bypass that.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#86

Post by throwaway2048 »

fortran77 wrote: post #64
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is what? System76 makes a decent laptop but they don’t have a repair center in every major city. I buy Apple computers because of the hardware support and integration with iPhone. Speaking of iPhone, the open options are at best abysmal for privacy (at least orders of magnitudes worse than Apple) and at worst part of planned obsolescence that creates e-waste much faster than Apple devices. Fun fact, a…

The alternative is Windows 10 on a wide variety of hardware, or Linux.

Windows 10 has even more invasive spyware nonsense.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#87

Post by throwaway2048 »

gruez wrote: post #83
CountSessine wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to bypass kexts and you’re just asking for kernel stability issues and Mac customer crashes. Pushing these guys out of the kernel lets Apple cheat them and Mac users clean and easy.

>Try to bypass kexts and you’re just asking for kernel stability issues and Mac customer crashes why would that be the case? All you'd need to do is provide some sort of private network api, and only allow apple signed code to use it.

that is not how kexts work(ed), they can do completely arbitrary things to the kernel, including removing any theoretical code signing requirement.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#88

Post by josteink »

jjoonathan wrote: post #5

"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.

> and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further

And the slippery slope of MacOS lockdown slips just a little further.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#90

Post by ineedasername »

nix23 wrote: post #28
jjoonathan wrote: post #5

"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.

Dont pray, just dont buy Apple Products

What's the alternative for the typical user? Windows has its own problems, and let's face it: market forces on this sort of thing or any other practices by the two of them have not driven people to use desktop Linux instead. For most people, there's simply no reasonable option to switch to that would avoid these things or employ market forces to get these companies to change their ways.
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