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A case for using punctuation in Slack

blog.mitchjlee.com

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Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#81

Post by jbay808 »

swimfar wrote: post #27
saagarjha wrote: post #2

I feel like (so, of course, this is how I use instant messaging) periods at the end of a message suggest the logical conclusion of a thought, and are far too formal to use with every message. Email, sure, but not chat. (I do use question marks and capitalize in general, but periods in particular seem strange to me.)

Could you explain this more because it's completely foreign to me. For me a period is the end of a sentence. It has nothing to do with ending the message I'm trying to get across. Is this a cultural or generational or professional field difference? I'd never heard of the idea that a period would be too formal in any context.

It's definitely something that I notice with instant messages. Periods are used between sentences in a multi-sentence message, but if you put them at the end, you might seem upset -- especially if the sentence is short.

This is probably because:

- IMs are already formatted to show the end of each message (chat bubble, etc), so a period communicates extra 'finality' beyond what is necessary;

- Sentence fragments are normal and expected, but seem weird with a period at the end;

- Using formality in an informal setting can create a sense of emotional distance;

- IM cues like these are likely established and spread by people who have mostly used IM in non-professional settings, with friends and significant others, and those norms are then brought with them when interpreting the IMs they receive in a professional setting. If you never communicated with your significant other via text message, you've probably never needed to express as many subtle emotional signals into your texts, and so just treat them like emails. But if you have, then you eventually pick up how powerful punctuation can be at communicating emotion in that medium.

Eg.

> I'll be home late tonight

>> Okay

VS:

> I'll be home late tonight

>> Okay.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#83

Post by greggyb »

adjkant wrote: post #41

The message beyond the HN title actually has potential. However, the author focuses in some odd places for me. As far as punctuation, ending periods actually have negative emotion in text vernacular now for younger audiences and should almost never be used in 1-1 messaging. Exclamation points, commas, and question marks, great! For abbreviations, it's simply know your audience. You should use them when everyone in th…

I've come across the period-as-negative idea before. I communicate in text media to audiences ranging from people in their early twenties to several decades my senior. I strive to communicate similarly to all. This includes capitalization and punctuation. I've discussed the negative period with several folks in this range, and none indicate that they view my communication as abrupt, brief, or negative, but that they do sometimes notice that with others.

I ultimately come to this conclusion. A period is a tiny piece of a message. If something so small makes your message seem in some way negative, then your communication is already on the margin. You should look at other areas of your communication to improve.

My default view of messages in what seems quickly to be becoming the common text style (all lower-case with abbreviations and no punctuation, written in fits of stream-of-consciousness) expresses laziness and a sense of self-importance on the part of the author. I find that assuming good intentions of the author is a much better stance to take. Thus, I choose to interpret positively what might otherwise seem negative to me. If someone else is incapable of looking past a period, then my communication must be very poor indeed, and I must make efforts to improve it.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#84

Post by libraryatnight »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #58

As someone of the younger generation who grew up always using mostly proper punctuation over texts, and avoided abbreviations for common terms this hits home. I'm 28 for reference, and I get VERY different vibes from those younger than me who join slack, and those older (40+ or so). The difference in meaning for different punctuation for these crowds is SO evident, I feel like I'm always playing translator for even t…

I think it's funny you think the ellipsis abuse was something the older folks picked up from your generation.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#85

Post by 72deluxe »

parliament32 wrote: post #75
justin_oaks wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's less about formalism than it is about clear communication. People will also be confused if you shout out a message to the room without appropriate pauses (commas or periods) or without the right tone (question marks).

But that's the thing, if you ever used IM for a significant amount of time, you know you don't need punctuation. Question marks, yes, he's right about that.. but I certainly don't add periods at the end of every five word chat post. Maybe if you're writing a paragraph in Slack go for it, but if I have a few sentences to say I'll usually just send them in a few messages instead. This whole idea of writing formal multi…

And how is real-time chat “supposed to” work? It presents a text box to type into. The text that I type in there is proper English, with correct punctuation and sentence structure. I don’t see how it being real-time suddenly means you need to abandon that.

In the same way, face to face communication doesn’t suddenly abandon inflection or tone simply because it is real-time.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#86

Post by vangelis »

soggybutter wrote: post #59
adjkant wrote: post #41

The message beyond the HN title actually has potential. However, the author focuses in some odd places for me. As far as punctuation, ending periods actually have negative emotion in text vernacular now for younger audiences and should almost never be used in 1-1 messaging. Exclamation points, commas, and question marks, great! For abbreviations, it's simply know your audience. You should use them when everyone in th…

100% agree about ending periods. I always read those messages as being irritated or overly firm. Potentially worse, though, are people who have a habit of abusing ellipses (...) in weird places. My boss does this in virtually every sentence, sometimes multiple times, and it always comes off like he can't believe you'd say something so stupid

What could he mean by that...? You're doing a great job...

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#87

Post by parliament32 »

72deluxe wrote: post #85
parliament32 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing, if you ever used IM for a significant amount of time, you know you don't need punctuation. Question marks, yes, he's right about that.. but I certainly don't add periods at the end of every five word chat post. Maybe if you're writing a paragraph in Slack go for it, but if I have a few sentences to say I'll usually just send them in a few messages instead. This whole idea of writing formal multi…

And how is real-time chat “supposed to” work? It presents a text box to type into. The text that I type in there is proper English, with correct punctuation and sentence structure. I don’t see how it being real-time suddenly means you need to abandon that. In the same way, face to face communication doesn’t suddenly abandon inflection or tone simply because it is real-time.

And again, I think it comes down to culture. In your workplace, you're in a room with your coworkers: do you ask "Excuse me everyone, could I have a moment of your time? Does anyone know the status on the internal project Crusade Against Initialisms? Thanks in advance!" or do you say "yo what's the latest on CAI?". In our org, Slack is the same as talking in person (since we, you know, can't do that anymore thanks to WFH and whatnot).

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#89

Post by tpoacher »

The message effectively seems to be: "The only reason your shortcut is efficient is because it saves you time and effort, at the cost of other people's time and effort".

To which I say: "Duh!? What, you thought people who do it don't realise that's the case? That's exactly why they do it, even!".

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#90

Post by musingsole »

iamdbtoo wrote: post #68
soggybutter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree about ending periods. I always read those messages as being irritated or overly firm. Potentially worse, though, are people who have a habit of abusing ellipses (...) in weird places. My boss does this in virtually every sentence, sometimes multiple times, and it always comes off like he can't believe you'd say something so stupid

I find this odd because, to me, attributing malice because of the presence of a period is something you do in your own mind. You don't know the emotional state of the person who sent it, so you think of the worst possible outcome, but both are equally likely in the moment. You're just as free to give them the benefit of the doubt.

It's something people do in their own minds because experience generally proves out most people only use a period in a single statement message if they're emphasizing firmness. Those who do use the period and don't mean firmness are a minority and are generally demonstrating they aren't accustomed to chatting in text (or potentially have always been talking from a position of authority, so no one's mentioned how they're coming off).
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