Live data from Hacker News

Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp

81–90 of 118 posts

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#81
post #6

It's kind of wild to me how there's such a product vacuum for this stuff. I've dug around and the only real option is an HDMI capture card paired with a decent camera (I read this Sony software option is lower quality, but at least it's progress). LG camera setups target businesses and are generally overpriced crap (I have one - the LG meetup) with proprietary connections and mediocre cameras, and crappy mics/softwar…

The phones which everyone has in their pockets is only limited by software to not act as a proper webcam(UVC/As an HID Webcam) instead of hacks like using IPCam protocols like RTSP etc which also need additional software on both ends.

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#82

Serious question - do Mac users just not use HDMI to USB capture devices? I got mine for $10 off eBay [1] and it works great with my Sony camera (RX100 IV) with zero new drivers required on PC[2]. [1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-USB-2-0-Video-Capture-Card-... [2] It's limited to 1080p, which is more than I need from a webcam.

My camera (the a6000) isn't supported by this software, so I've been very happy with my $12 hdmi capture card, weird proprietary HDMI cable and dummy battery.

I hate having to press the ‘play’ button every time. Is there a solve for that?

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be for different uses, but I'd rather Apple bring their iPhone front camera to the MacBooks. It's crazy that MacBook cameras still top out at 720p.

I don't think they can, is the thing. My iPhone is at least three times as thick as the screen of my MacBook, and I'd be surprised if they aren't using at least some of that depth on the front camera. What I would like to see is official support for using the back iPhone cameras as a webcam, but I don't expect to: it looks like Apple wants to remove the last port on the phones, no matter how dumb an idea that might b…

I assume they could add a camera bump to laptops, similar to modern smartphones.

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried it and I haven’t been able to use it for literally anything.

I just tried it as well and haven't had luck. Tried doing this: - installing the linked 'imaging edge webcam' software. - restarting - hooking up my sony camera (it's compatible per the list) over usb - opening Quicktime Player, going to "new movie recording", selecting "Sony Camera (Imaging Edge)" - Instead see a logo for the software (instead of the camera output) but no connection. Tried futzing with opening camer…

It's not clear to me if plugging the camera via USB would provide enough power to the camera without using batteries. Is that the case?

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#85

Serious question - do Mac users just not use HDMI to USB capture devices? I got mine for $10 off eBay [1] and it works great with my Sony camera (RX100 IV) with zero new drivers required on PC[2]. [1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-USB-2-0-Video-Capture-Card-... [2] It's limited to 1080p, which is more than I need from a webcam.

Isn't there really bad lag inherent in that process though? (My only source is personal experience with a HDMI-to-USB3 capture device with ~200ms+ lag - about 6-7 years ago)

If you want a good quality camera for Zoom/Facetime/etc anything over ~32ms would be grating - especially if you're using an external microphone attached directly to the computer.

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#86

Serious question - do Mac users just not use HDMI to USB capture devices? I got mine for $10 off eBay [1] and it works great with my Sony camera (RX100 IV) with zero new drivers required on PC[2]. [1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-USB-2-0-Video-Capture-Card-... [2] It's limited to 1080p, which is more than I need from a webcam.

I got one of those capture devices and connected a Lumix G7. Plug and play in Linux. Now I'm using OBS with v4l2loopback to have greater control, crop, etc. Nobody cares or notices the nearly half second delay. And nobody notices the bokeh and nice colors either :(

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#87
I heard about this last week and tried it with my Sony α6100 on Windows.

All of these sorts operate over PTP, roughly saying: “camera, please take a photo of what you see (but don’t save it to the SD card)” followed by “camera, please hand me that temporary file you just created”—30 times a second, and then serves the JPEGs in succession as an MJPEG. I know this is how it works because I was figuring out how this stuff worked a month or two back (Wireshark and all) with a view to creating a way of using it as a webcam.

My camera only captures at 1024×576 this way. This is disappointing. I suspect that this resolution may have been chosen so that it could still serve 30fps over USB 2 (480Mbps, and 1024 width × 576 height × 24 bits × 30 frames = 405Mbps, though in practice JPEG compression is used so it’ll never be anywhere near this). I’m not sure how fast it actually does transfer over USB, but the one time I imported my photos to my computer over USB, it was vastly slower than just taking the SD card out and putting it in the Surface Book’s reader, which let me copy multi-gigabyte video files off at 2Gbps. (I’m still marvelling at that speed every time I do it.)

Despite that low resolution, it will still look better than almost all laptop webcams at 1280×720 or even those at 1920×1080, because of superior optics.

Another thing to be aware of is much higher latency—I observed a delay of 150–200ms, which is extremely not great.

So my conclusion all up is that, at least for the α6100, this is not suitable for serious use. I guided someone last week to using https://ptpwebcam.org/ on their Mac last week (having come across it in my earlier research), and he reported getting a much better resolution with his Nikon camera than with his Sony camera. Not sure about latency, I didn’t ask.

The alternative in all this is HDMI capture cards. Unfortunately, decent ones are moderately expensive—but then, you bought a DSLR or mirrorless camera, so you’re clearly not afraid of spending money, even if it is a pity that you have to spend more when USB really should be quite capable. I haven’t acquired one yet (I’m in India at present, and the options available are extremely limited, though curiously far wider today than they were two months ago, when there basically weren’t any below US$200), but from my research I say this: do not get one of the cheapest ones that advertise USB 2.0 operation, 1080p and maybe mention 30fps. It’s genuinely impossible for them to actually achieve this as they should: 1080p of 24-bit colour at 30fps is 1400Mbps, which is treble the theoretical limit of USB 2.0, and I’m not sure what the practical speed limit of USB 2.0 is, but it’s typically quite a bit lower than that. So in short they must be lying and sacrificing image quality and/or frame rate. Reviews of such capture cards are pretty consistently a mixed bunch with some saying “sure, it works fine” and others saying “no, this is terrible and unusable, don’t buy it, it was a waste of money”, sometimes with proper technical detail of where it fell short. Instead, seek as a minimum one that advertises USB 3.0, 1080p and 30fps (and make sure it actually says all three of these things, it’s muddy ground where there seem to be some that don’t say or consistently achieve 30fps). There are still various options a lot cheaper than popular known-reliable units like the Elgato Cam Link.

I’m not sure what latency is like if you use an HDMI capture card, but I’m guessing it’ll still be enough (2–4 frames at 30fps) that you might want to fiddle with latency compensation if you’re using something like OBS Studio, to align your audio and video sources.

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#88

Is there a way to use this with MacBook Pro without having to invest in an expensive HDMI capture card? The cheapest (reputable) HDMI cards I can find are around $100, many are much more expensive, and they often have features I don't need. I just want a straight HDMI to USB-C.

these cheapo hdmi capture cards work great: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-USB2-0-Video-Capture-Card-1...

Do those work at 1080p 60 FPS? It claims to support 4K 30 at least.

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#89
post #50

It's fascinating to watch the camera companies slowly catch up to where Elgato was years ago; their failure to "think beyond the box" may help explains why camera sales peaked around 2012 and have been falling ever since. Don't get me wrong: I still have a standalone Fuji camera, but I'm unusually interested in photo aesthetics. For most people, ease of use and convenience wins, and that it took this long for Sony to…

Camera companies are stuck in some sort of car company stagnation loop it feels like, limiting themselves as pro tools. The only one approaching innovations was samsung, and they peaced out years ago. * No touch-id in the shutter button * No cell phone connectivity / android app support to instantly share your photos to insta, fb, etc & to sync as you go. * No ordering prints right in the camera * No google pixel / i…

> No google pixel / iOS quality level HDR & night sight modes

Marc Levoy (the brains behind Google's amazing Computational Photography technology), said that he had gone to the Camera companies before and they rejected his proposals. Camera companies were too afraid that someone was going to take a photo, and it would end up looking bad, and result in people returning their camera.

Source: Somewhere in this excellent course shared by Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7HrM-fk_Rc&list=PL7ddpXYvFX...

Re: Sony cameras can now be used as webcams for Mac

#90
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bug worth reporting - it shouldn’t crash, and it’s trivial to accidentally duplicate an app!

Hm, I would report it but I’d be afraid they’d “fix” the copied app workaround as well. I suspect it crashes because Handoff tries to start the last FaceTime binary I used, but some kind of signature has changed so it kills it immediately. I’m not sure why it’s spotlight that crashes except that maybe its index is used to launch the last FaceTime I used?

What happens if you disable handoff for calls?
Post reply on HN