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Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

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Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#81
I don't write much on Hacker Nees, I'm much of a reader. But...

Your product looks great. I watched the demo on the home page and I'm impressed.

I'm definitely going to give a try. The developer integration seems awesome.

Congratulations on the release.

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#82

Tom here from Doppler. I'm a founding engineer at Doppler and work on most of our security. Feel free to hit me with any security questions about our product, philosophy, etc.

Hey Tom! I see in the security section it says "We secure your data at rest through a mechanism called tokenization, which ensures our systems only store references to your secrets. In the event of a data breach, attackers would only gain access to the references." If this is the case, then where are the secrets stored? How can you view the secrets from the web console if they aren't stored anywhere? Thanks!

Great question! We tokenize all secrets and then store the tokens in our database. The raw secrets are stored with our tokenization provider, VGS. When you fetch your secrets, either via our dashboard or CLI, we exchange the token for the raw secret value and then relay that value in our response. This ensures that our infrastructure never persists raw secret values. You can find more information about this process in our Security docs [0].

[0] https://docs.doppler.com/docs/security-fact-sheet#data-flow-...

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#83

I don't write much on Hacker Nees, I'm much of a reader. But... Your product looks great. I watched the demo on the home page and I'm impressed. I'm definitely going to give a try. The developer integration seems awesome. Congratulations on the release.

Thank you! Indeed I am not much of a writer on HN but I love the community.

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#84
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, congrats on the launch! Potentially a little off topic, but I'm curious how you came up with the name Doppler. After the audio effect, or the Witcher creature, or something else entirely?

It is a re-use/pivot of a name for a previous project from Brian that didn't take off: ``` Show HN: Doppler – Machine learning marketplace of pretrained models (producthunt.com) - 6 points by bvallelunga on Apr 25, 2018 | 1 comment ``` It's a cool name for sure, but after perusing the founder of this project's blog posts and other web activity, their highly misleading marketing ("you have three options: waste time, d…

A great example of not trying to play politics/marketing-spin to elbow competitors in the face:

https://www.vaultproject.io/docs/vs

``` More importantly, just as we like to present information about Vault and its capabilities in the ways that we prefer, we felt it wasn't appropriate to describe the capabilities of other projects or products in ways other than their own terms. ```

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#85
Congratulations on the launch.

A few months ago a wrote about how I solve this problem (https://www.viadog.com/replacing-environment-variables-aws-s...) and it works nicely for a small team with a small number of projects but this looks like a very nice solution when starting to scale a little bigger.

Good luck going forward!

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#86
You have to give Doppler your secrets which is absolutely crazy. Is there a self hosted version?

How does it fair against Vault? Vault is self hosted and open source.

Does everyone in this thread know the founder or something? No one is asking these and they're in my view the absolutely most important questions.

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Tom! I see in the security section it says "We secure your data at rest through a mechanism called tokenization, which ensures our systems only store references to your secrets. In the event of a data breach, attackers would only gain access to the references." If this is the case, then where are the secrets stored? How can you view the secrets from the web console if they aren't stored anywhere? Thanks!

Great question! We tokenize all secrets and then store the tokens in our database. The raw secrets are stored with our tokenization provider, VGS. When you fetch your secrets, either via our dashboard or CLI, we exchange the token for the raw secret value and then relay that value in our response. This ensures that our infrastructure never persists raw secret values. You can find more information about this process i…

Thanks for the quick response. I think this should really be explicitly stated in the docs, along with a link to VGS. The diagram didn't make it obvious to me that the "security provider" block is actually storing the secrets, rather than just converting them into tokens.

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#88

You have to give Doppler your secrets which is absolutely crazy. Is there a self hosted version? How does it fair against Vault? Vault is self hosted and open source. Does everyone in this thread know the founder or something? No one is asking these and they're in my view the absolutely most important questions.

We realize that storing secrets requires trust and for some companies it may be outside of their comfort zone at the moment. We are currently focused on creating a super easy to use solution. An analogy: there are open source versions of Dropbox for users that don't trust Dropbox with their files (NextCloud, ownCloud, etc.), however this comes with the friction of having to host your own solution. We are more like Dropbox, where we want to create a solution that is incredibly easy to install, manage, and work with. That being said, a self-hosted solution is top of our mind as we totally acknowledge that some companies would not want to use a hosted solution.

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#89
Thank you for acknowledging the need for trust, self-hosting + auditability.

However, please stop trying to contrast yourself with these analogies. Owncloud and Nextcloud both have hosted OR on-prem versions

https://owncloud.com/pricing/

https://nextcloud.com/providers/

Re: Launch HN: Doppler (YC W19) – Easily manage your env vars and secrets

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question! We tokenize all secrets and then store the tokens in our database. The raw secrets are stored with our tokenization provider, VGS. When you fetch your secrets, either via our dashboard or CLI, we exchange the token for the raw secret value and then relay that value in our response. This ensures that our infrastructure never persists raw secret values. You can find more information about this process i…

Thanks for the quick response. I think this should really be explicitly stated in the docs, along with a link to VGS. The diagram didn't make it obvious to me that the "security provider" block is actually storing the secrets, rather than just converting them into tokens.

Thanks for that feedback, I completely agree. I've updated the linked page to mention this more explicitly.
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