Perhaps this is a cynical view, but as someone who spent a thousands of hours in MS offices throughout the world, they could hit this target essentially overnight if they brought many of the vendor employees on staff as FTE's. Microsoft outsources an astonishing amount of their support roles to external companies and many (perhaps even most) of those employees are minorities. If MS brought some of those jobs in house and worked on creating opportunities for those employees to learn and advance their careers they I think they it could eventually yield some very positive results for all involved.
Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
81–90 of 102 posts
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#82Any affirmative action is by definition discriminating on the basis of race. If you want the best candidate for the job, you don't look at race, you look at their abilities to do the job. Period. Any bias towards hiring one race implies bias against hiring from other races. Why is it okay to have almost no Asian players in the NBA while a small percentage of black people in tech is a big fuss? It is all hypocrisy.
Yes it is definitely discrimination, but not all such discrimination is illegal or morally wrong.
> but not all such discrimination is illegal or morally wrong.
Tell that to the Asian kid that just learnt that he now has to slave away at his studies because of his skin color.
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the list of board members of major companies that have lost their seat due to real or perceived racism is extremely short, unless you have a long list of them lying about. I seriously doubt a whole board was strong-armed by a single person, and if it was a plurality of board members that suggested this, then that's how boards are intended to work.
I think, after the James D'Amore case, anyone with 10% of the wits needed to get to FAANG board learned to shut up and nod. You don't get that high up without playing the political game, and the rules of the game at this point are very clear.
So you do not have a long list of board members that have lost their seat due to real or perceived racism.
What are these rules of this game, explicitly? And who enforces them?
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#84> "We are clear that the law prohibits us from discriminating on the basis of race," the firm's lawyer Dev Stahlkopf blogged. Pardon my ignorance... But I thought in the case of affirmative action, discrimination based on race was legal? Reading on... > It has informed the tech giant that while companies can set affirmative action goals to boost employment of "minorities and women", they "must not engage in discrimin…
Look at how Caltech went from 15% women undergraduates when I was a student there in the '80s to 45% now without discriminating on the basis of gender in admission. Rather than making gender a factor in admissions, they concentrated on getting more qualified women to apply. They would contact high school women who were very good in STEM subjects and their parents, and send someone to visit them and try to convince th…
Caltech, like other private schools such as Harvard, absolutely does discriminate in the admissions process. They are a fervent advocate of “holistic admissions”, which is modern activist speak for “process involving discrimination, most often against Asian races”. Take a look at http://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/first-year-freshman-..., which says “We have always reviewed students within the context of the opportunities available to them, and we will hold true to that practice.”
Unlike Caltech, public schools in California are not permitted to discriminate and have different student demographics from private schools for this reason. Prop 209 from 1996, which banned affirmative action in CA, is unfortunately on the current ballot for a potential repeal as part of Prop 16.
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#85Microsoft (and every other tech company) = Jared in this scene https://youtu.be/Dek5HtNdIHY?t=18
Say what you want to say. No need to devolve comment threads to links on YouTube.
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#86Any affirmative action is by definition discriminating on the basis of race. If you want the best candidate for the job, you don't look at race, you look at their abilities to do the job. Period. Any bias towards hiring one race implies bias against hiring from other races. Why is it okay to have almost no Asian players in the NBA while a small percentage of black people in tech is a big fuss? It is all hypocrisy.
It's worse than hypocrisy, it's accomplishing the opposite of what it's supposed to do. It's only a matter of time until there is an obvious gap in skill, which will only hurt the reputation of that group and then the situation could backfire when conflict starts arising among people with different skillset.
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#87Any affirmative action is by definition discriminating on the basis of race. If you want the best candidate for the job, you don't look at race, you look at their abilities to do the job. Period. Any bias towards hiring one race implies bias against hiring from other races. Why is it okay to have almost no Asian players in the NBA while a small percentage of black people in tech is a big fuss? It is all hypocrisy.
The elephant in the room is that due to rather dark times in the U.S. history, there are cultural differences between an average Black and an average White family. It doesn't mean that every family of a certain race will fit the stereotype, but if you look at numbers, they do check out. This isn't fair, this isn't nice, but it's a very important piece of the puzzle and you cannot solve the problem without admitting i…
"Many of these cultural differences are crucial to getting high-paid positions. Like nagging on your kids to study. Like making sure their role models are scientists and inventors, and not gang leaders. Like stressing out delayed gratification and showing how planning and persistence pays off in long term."
Haven't you heard these are racist values? Seriously, many of these values are frowned upon, and deemed "white", even though it's what has worked for so long across the world.
I'm afraid this equity, as best-intention as it might be, will make the problem worse by creating a dependency that will further define the culture as needing this form of victimhood status.
Imagine the year 2143, people will have digital assistants, flying cars and also diversity and inclusion training will tell you how oppressed some people still are. It's easier to blame history than to admit you are stupid and need to make better decisions in life.
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't tell if you're being intentionally ironic or not. Imagine telling an Asian child that they have to work way harder because of their race. You do realize that this is exactly what marginalized races have to tell their children, right? "You will have to work harder because of the color of your skin, and it might not matter at all." I don't know how to change the fallout of centuries of race-based slavery and th…
> "If you don't value diversity, maybe just say so..." Personal attacks are against HN guidelines, no matter how well intentioned your cause. Implying that Asians, Indians, and so forth are "privileged classes" and not "marginalized races" too and suggesting the diversity they bring is of no "value" is probably why this cause has negligible support among Asians, Indians, and so forth, beyond a bit of token lip servic…
Where's the personal attack?
As for your latter statement, I never said anything like that. You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth. As far as I could tell, that was the stance taken by the person I responded to.
As for income equality, I'm seeing that, in the US, Asians reported the highest median household income in 2019 at more than double the median black household income. If you really want to talk about value, it seems that the money is indicating plenty of value across the board.
https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2019/demo/p60-...
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't tell if you're being intentionally ironic or not. Imagine telling an Asian child that they have to work way harder because of their race. You do realize that this is exactly what marginalized races have to tell their children, right? "You will have to work harder because of the color of your skin, and it might not matter at all." I don't know how to change the fallout of centuries of race-based slavery and th…
> marginalized races have to tell their children [...] "You will have to work harder because of the color of your skin, and it might not matter at all." Exactly my point - this is basically word-for-word what Asian children are told. > outside of trying to elevate people who don't quite deserve on merit alone over others perhaps more fit for the job. And in doing this you condemn others simply because of their race.…
I think I misunderstood your perspective. I thought you were saying that you considered yourself privileged and were not happy about the prospect of increased competition or higher requirements due to candidates being added to the pool. I think now that you've clarified that you're not saying this, though, but that asians are also marginalized?
> Provide learning opportunities to the economically underprivileged before important events like college admissions.
I appreciate the sentiment here, I really do. It's wonderful to think that with a little bit better education sprinkled in at the right time you can change an entire history of systemic oppression. Something like education is an opportunity that require a certain privilege to even take advantage of. What about when college isn't even an option because you need a job to help put food on the table?
It's one thing to tell your kids that they're expected to work harder for the same success. From what I've heard directly from asian friends, that's an asian cultural thing as well. In fact, you're the first I've ever heard describe it as racism. Maybe I'm naive.
It's another thing altogether for never have a chance of getting out regardless of opportunity unless that opportunity allows you to also take care of your family as you may have needed to otherwise. Maybe scholarships that also provide social safety nets for the families of children leaving for college instead of working to provide.
Now maybe that fits into your idea of not being affirmative action, since it's clearly not a racial criteria, but I don't think anyone will be surprised when this has disproportionate benefits for marginalized races.
Re: Microsoft probed by US government over aim to double black staff numbers
#90Not commenting about the merits of this specific probe, but here is a thought. African Americans are 13% of the US Population. Isn't it reasonable to aspire to have at least 13% of African American staff (proportionally adjusted per state/city populations)? This is a rhetoric question, what causes that to not be the case. The article doesn't mention the numbers but when a particular race is disproportionately less re…
Why would you assume that the racial demographics of a particular corporate entity’s workforce should match the national average demographic breakdown? Can you think of any reasons why a specific workplace’s demographics might deviate from the mean that isn’t rooted in unequal opportunity ?
Because that's how quotas work.
So if the country is 13% black your employees should be 13% black.
Then and only then you have archived true "diversity"
Alternatively you can ofcourse always drop the whole affirmative action bullshit and just hire based on qualification.
But then you no longer receive good boy points for wokeness.