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Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

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Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#81

Post by cmrdporcupine »

alkonaut wrote: post #67
0xffff2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 3x increase in density does approximately nothing to make electric airliners more viable. We need more like a 100x increase before we see an electric 737 or A320.

This is the second time in this discussion someone mentions electric planes being viable and you respond with electric airliners not being viable. Those are (in most peoples terminology) entirely different things. Having viable light electric aircraft could revolutionize flight even if every aircraft for more than 20 people would run on kerosene for the next century. I don’t think anyone is expecting a battery powere…

This. Enhancing drone flight times, or other automated/semi-automated airborne machinery would be an absolutely huge win for industry and commerce as a whole.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#82

Post by Verdex »

Carbon nanotubes seem to be the real life version of chemical vat accidents or radiation exposure in comic books.

I think they also fed some carbon nanotubes to a spider and managed to get stronger silk. Like what's going on here?

I'm hoping that the scientists involved know what they are doing because from a layman perspective it just looks like carbon nanotubes can be added to anything to give it super powers.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#83

Post by extropy »

hinkley wrote: post #10

Didn’t Maxwell Technologies already announce a similar breakthrough a few years ago, and isn’t that why Tesla bought them? Some patent lawyers are going to wake up to some good news today...

They did the dry electrode thing. That makes manufacturing cheaper but nothing more.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#84

Post by tomalpha »

onion2k wrote: post #69
djrogers wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know. Sure, if you can build batteries with the energy density of gasoline, you can build an electric plane with them. But is this really necessary? Only if you value overseas travel... It currently takes ~16 hours to fly from SF to Singapore depending on weather. Any longer, and you're going to see a lot of that travel disappear.

Only if you value overseas travel... It currently takes ~16 hours to fly from SF to Singapore depending on weather. Any longer, and you're going to see a lot of that travel disappear. It takes that long because it's more efficient to do it in a single flight. Taking off and landing are a massive waste of time and fuel. If we only had short range planes people would change their destinations in some cases or they'd pl…

Indeed. Though like in the olden days the large number of stopovers might cut down demand somewhat:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_Route#Multiple_stops

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#85

Post by extropy »

ford_o wrote: post #61
immmmmm wrote: post #56

I had the opportunity to work in one of the world best nano technology lab. My supervisor once told me that he refused to work on nano-structured batteries for an obvious reason: These are impossible to recycle. Science these days is often more about the headline (even better if you do the cover of Science) and less about real (societal) benefits.

It isn't obvious to me why would they be impossible to recycle.

Yeah, just burn it all, collect the volatiles. Actually no idea how battery recycling works.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#86

Post by snovv_crash »

seanc wrote: post #79
0xffff2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thinner the phone, the thicker the case I can put on it with the same total thickness. It's incredibly rare to see a case-less phone in the wild these days.

I heard somewhere that in Holland every bicycle + lock weighs 5kg. If you have a cheap 5kg bike no one wants it and you don't have to lock it. If you have an expensive 1.5kg bike you need a lock that weighs 3.5kg to protect it.

It's more like 20% of the bike's cost should be in locks.

And a 1.5kg bike? What kind of bikes are you looking at?

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#87

Post by snovv_crash »

driverdan wrote: post #77
rocqua wrote: post #6

IF this is true, it would be a massive breakthrough. Truly monumental. Hence, I am skeptical. But otherwise, this would be a massive thing. a 2x capacity per weight advantage of batteries? Without an increase in space? That comes down to doubling the range of EVs, and making electric planes and rockets a lot more viable. A 3x capacity per space advantage means roughly a 3x improvement in your phone and laptop battery…

> A 10x speedup of charging? Not possible with existing infrastructure. The limiting factors are cooling the batteries and feeding them enough power. On small scale like laptops it's possible to speed up charging but not at large scale like cars. That isn't to say it may be possible in the future but it isn't now.

It increases the charging speed by reducing the heat produced while charging.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#88

Post by ogre_codes »

Am I the only one who gets halfway through this and gets bombed with malware pop-ups?

In general I'm cynical about any big breakthroughs which aren't actually in production. Too many steps between the lab and manufacture. I'm not sure what their definition of "Production" is, but in my book production means it's in a customer's product on it's way to the end user. That's clearly not the case here.

This all seems sketchy enough, the sketchy advertising just completely sinks it for me.

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#89

Post by specialist »

newyankee wrote: post #28
danmaz74 wrote: post #19

Actually good article if you continue reading. Comment from an independent expert: "Research has shown vertically aligned – or even just well distributed – carbon nanotubes have far greater properties than randomly placed carbon nanotubes," said Dr. Shearer. "I am not surprised a x10 in conductivity is possible. Controlling the placement of carbon nanotubes is really the way to unlock their potential. The issue in co…

Given that presumably Tesla's goal is to take battery costs down by 56% in 3 years from (108 - 140 $/kwh) to (50 - 70$/kwh) and widely held consensus is that 100$/kwh is the price point at which EVs are no brainer on upfront costs with ICE cars, i feel that there is a long way to go. However, i think any successful real world demo starting with niche applications will help. We need all the battery tech to succeed.

FWIW, I just learned about "Wright's Law" via Sandy Munro. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects

Re: Vertically aligned carbon nanotubes triple the density of lithium batteries

#90

Post by kokey »

choeger wrote: post #53
DennisP wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric airplanes need significantly better energy density.

I don't know. Sure, if you can build batteries with the energy density of gasoline, you can build an electric plane with them. But is this really necessary ? Right now, we have relatively large, relatively fast, jet planes. Do we need that size and that speed to be commercially viable? Could we also run a larger fleet of smaller, more automated planes or helicopters? If there was no kerosene left by tomorrow morning,…

I probably have a skewed perception because I play with small fpv drones, but any weight saving like this usually opens up a whole world of new possibilities we never bothered to imagine before. This will certainly help existing delivery drones and drone taxi projects.
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