Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

radar.oreilly.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 196 posts

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#81

Post by PandaPacha »

runjake wrote: post #63

I didn't know this was news. I and other security researchers & law enforcement have known about it for a while. I assisted in one court case where the data was used as evidence. I suspect the slick-looking iPhoneTracker app finally made it interesting to the media. Edit: There was a similar deal on iOS 3 but it seemed more like a bug, not a feature. Data would be purged at some unpredictable interval. I can't recall…

In deed nothing new. About a year ago a man discovered that his wife's iPhone was sending about 75 Mb of data to Apple via wifi in early morning : https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2450738?threadID=245073... It turned out it was dumps of GPS data and other stuffs.

Apple acknowledged that to the House of Representatives. They're gathering data about their customers, including GPS : [PDF] http://markey.house.gov/docs/applemarkeybarton7-12-10.pdf

II / C / 1 / a. : "Second, to help Apple update and maintain its database with known location information, Apple may also collect and transmit Cell Tower and Wi-Fi Access Point Information automatically. With one exception, Apple automatically collects this information only if the device’s location-based service capabilities are toggled to “On” and the customer uses an application requiring location-based infomiation. If both conditions are met, the device intermittently and anonymously collects Cell Tower and Wi-Fi Access Point Information from the cell towers and Wi-Fi access points that it can “see”, along with the device’s GPS coordinates, if available. This information is batched and then encrypted and transmitted to Apple over a Wi-Fi Internet connection every twelve hours (or later if the device does not have Wi-Fi Intemet access at that time)."

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#82

Post by soren_dahl »

runjake wrote: post #63

I didn't know this was news. I and other security researchers & law enforcement have known about it for a while. I assisted in one court case where the data was used as evidence. I suspect the slick-looking iPhoneTracker app finally made it interesting to the media. Edit: There was a similar deal on iOS 3 but it seemed more like a bug, not a feature. Data would be purged at some unpredictable interval. I can't recall…

Hopefully I have a better solicitor than the poor chap who had iOS location data submitted into evidence ;)

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#83

Post by zenocon »

About 6 months ago, I left an ipad on a plane. Unsurprisingly, all my attempts to recover it led to dead ends. I didn't have the mobileme / findmyiphone app installed on it. I understand privacy concerns, but I'd actually like it if Apple did have a copy of this db, and they allowed me to proxy through them / law enforcement so that I could locate this lost device. I know someone has it b/c I can see they were using my Netflix account.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#84

Post by runjake »

PandaPacha wrote: post #81
runjake wrote: post #63

I didn't know this was news. I and other security researchers & law enforcement have known about it for a while. I assisted in one court case where the data was used as evidence. I suspect the slick-looking iPhoneTracker app finally made it interesting to the media. Edit: There was a similar deal on iOS 3 but it seemed more like a bug, not a feature. Data would be purged at some unpredictable interval. I can't recall…

In deed nothing new. About a year ago a man discovered that his wife's iPhone was sending about 75 Mb of data to Apple via wifi in early morning : https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2450738?threadID=245073... It turned out it was dumps of GPS data and other stuffs. Apple acknowledged that to the House of Representatives. They're gathering data about their customers, including GPS : [PDF] http://markey.house.gov/doc…

Good info, thanks.

It's important to note that the above use of "anonymous" is laughable in context.

In order for that uploaded data to be useful by Apple, it needs to maintain both the lat/long and wi-fi access point ethernet addresses & signal strengths. This is pretty much a globally-unique identifier.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#85

Post by seats »

edw wrote: post #50
shekmalhen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please put it somewhere on the Internet. I'd love to look at it. Thank you in advance.

You're welcome: http://bbb.poseur.com/post/4777454362/the-last-year-or-so-of...

Great follow through. I kind of agree with you. I'm not sure what I'd use the data for, but I sure did enjoy looking back on where I was.

My amusement outweighs my outrage.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#86

Post by code_duck »

PandaPacha wrote: post #81
runjake wrote: post #63

I didn't know this was news. I and other security researchers & law enforcement have known about it for a while. I assisted in one court case where the data was used as evidence. I suspect the slick-looking iPhoneTracker app finally made it interesting to the media. Edit: There was a similar deal on iOS 3 but it seemed more like a bug, not a feature. Data would be purged at some unpredictable interval. I can't recall…

In deed nothing new. About a year ago a man discovered that his wife's iPhone was sending about 75 Mb of data to Apple via wifi in early morning : https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2450738?threadID=245073... It turned out it was dumps of GPS data and other stuffs. Apple acknowledged that to the House of Representatives. They're gathering data about their customers, including GPS : [PDF] http://markey.house.gov/doc…

I noticed Google asks to do this in Android, too. They make you explicitly OK it though, at least on my (Verizon Droid) phone.

In location options, if you check certain options it warns you that Google will be logging wifi info and other details even while apps that access this info are not running.

The warning shown when you click "Use wireless networks" in Location settings is

"Location consent Allow Google's location service to collect anonymous location data. Collection will occur even when no applications are running."

My analysis is that this turns the phone into a mobile sensor that performs the same function as one of the Google mobiles driving around with cameras performs relating to wifi and location logging. Google probably collects the GPS coordinates and SSID of every wifi network that comes into range of a phone with this enabled. Given their recent legal troubles relating to wifi discovery, hopefully it doesn't gather more than that.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#87

Post by ugh »

edw wrote: post #80
ugh wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparisons to be useful, you don't have to take everything literally. As far as the question of consent is concerned, the comparison is apt.

But why make the comparison if not to inflame? That's the point, isn't it? Comparing data collection to sex in the context of consent—as if the concept of consent applies in the same way, which is on its face a bold assertion—isn't about a logical argument, it's about trying to win a war over people's sentiments. And I think the sentiment that's being fought for here is irresponsible and simplistic.

If you chose to be inflamed ...

It's simple really, many people believe that privacy relevant data shouldn't be collected without the users consent. There is nothing at all wrong with collecting location data if the user has agreed to it, that changes if said consent is missing. Just as with sex.

Re: IPhones and 3G iPads log your location in an unencrypted file on the device

#89

Post by bittermang »

ck2 wrote: post #88

BTW all cellular devices are recorded as they move through tower locations while they are on and police don't feel they need a warrant for such data, so your location is pretty much available without that file.

My phones location is available. Not my location.
Post reply on HN