Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

9to5mac.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 98 posts

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#81

Post by tonywastaken »

IntelMiner wrote: post #52
_hhkc wrote: post #39

At face value, it seems like Apple is choosing not to reuse the devices. Apple determined that the devices were beyond repair and needed to be recycled for a reason (Potentially safety-related reasons). Geep decided to reuse them anyway, disregarding any potential safety reasons that Apple found not to be repairable. As much as I'd like to say that Apple is in the wrong here, I trust Apple's quality control guideline…

Except that exact same argument applies to Apple. Making it harder to reuse perfectly serviceable existing hardware simply puts an invisible hand on the balancing scale toward "buy the new shiny thing"

I think we are overestimating how much scale tipping consumers need in order to want to buy the shinny new thing. Also, we don't know the full story on either side, so our arguments are both valid.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#82

Post by solarkraft »

> Apple also notes that the number of stolen and resold devices must logically be greater than 103,845 since iPads and Apple Watches are only Wi-Fi compatible and cannot be noticed on carrier networks.

How is that a logical necessity? It's noting other than extrapolation.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#83

Post by solarkraft »

ksk wrote: post #40
izacus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this. We should care more about the sustainability of environment, consumer benefit and consumer rights and not the reputation of rich megacorporations.

It's a fake argument anyway. People perfectly understand that when they buy a used car, it could have had damage from the previous owner or other wear and tear. Is this common-sense somehow magically forgotten when Apple is concerned?

Car manufacturers and models also have a reputation regarding how well they hold up over time - Which is brilliant. It should be much more in the collective consciousness (Apple is actually quite good in this regard).

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#84

Post by solarkraft »

andrewjl wrote: post #26
RandallBrown wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets say you buy one of these recycled phones that Apple has already deemed unfixable. Maybe it mostly works, but the screen occasionally blacks out or there's a bunch of dead pixels. Maybe the battery dies almost immediately. It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this.

Why is Apple's reputation more important than the profits of a recycling company? Contracts aside, banning resale over something like this isn't capitalism. You either own something or you don't. Edit: I misunderstood the article and thought that the devices were sold. Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude. Apple is in the right here, I think.

> Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude. Apple is in the right here, I think.

With current law: Very likely.

But should it be that way? Should it be allowed to order the destruction of perfectly good devices people really want?

Apple's reason for wanting this is "we can extract more money that way", which sounds like an inefficiency of an unfree market to me, actually.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#86

Post by rasz »

robjan wrote: post #63
arrosenberg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes that a problem? Both of those programs increase Apple's control and power in the market.

They don't want to either cannibalise their sales or make their brand suffer from "prole drift" [0] [0]: https://archive.is/Kyyf1

Hey, this Times article is by James Harkin, writer for QI and co-host of 'No Such Thing as a Fish'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harkin_(podcaster)

Edit: or not, seems there is another author sharing same name http://www.jamesharkin.co.uk/about/

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#87

Post by rasz »

Joker_vD wrote: post #3

Well, very technically speaking, they did recycle those iPhones. Why is Apples so obsessed with controlling the entirety of their devices' life cycle, anyway?

Yes, reselling is recycling. Apple redefines recycling to Will it blend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYshVbcEmUc

100K devices back in the supply stream means Apple lost on at least $30Mil of pure profit.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#88

Post by rasz »

yalogin wrote: post #44

Why are we assuming that these are usable devices? Apple recycled them for a reason. They are obviously cosmetically fine and so people bought them. Who knows what is going on with those devices and what issues they will create for the user.

Apple recycles motherboards in need of a Fuse replacement.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#89

Post by andrewjl »

solarkraft wrote: post #84
andrewjl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Apple's reputation more important than the profits of a recycling company? Contracts aside, banning resale over something like this isn't capitalism. You either own something or you don't. Edit: I misunderstood the article and thought that the devices were sold. Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude. Apple is in the right here, I think.

> Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude. Apple is in the right here, I think. With current law: Very likely. But should it be that way? Should it be allowed to order the destruction of perfectly good devices people really want? Apple's reason for wanting this is "we can extract more money that way", which sounds like an inefficiency of an unfree market to…

I realize the irony of arguing against my prior IMO incorrect position, so it goes. Given it's a freely entered into contract I don't consider it our place to allow or disallow it. Apple's reason is a legitimate one, since it owns those devices, that's the cornerstone of property rights.

The argument about social good may sound good but unnecessary coercion is incompatible with a free society. IMO the better way to fix this is to create better incentives for re-use, such as tax credits. Coercion should always be a last resort.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#90

Post by rasz »

_hhkc wrote: post #39

At face value, it seems like Apple is choosing not to reuse the devices. Apple determined that the devices were beyond repair and needed to be recycled for a reason (Potentially safety-related reasons). Geep decided to reuse them anyway, disregarding any potential safety reasons that Apple found not to be repairable. As much as I'd like to say that Apple is in the wrong here, I trust Apple's quality control guideline…

Its the other way around. Apple determined it was detrimental to their bottom line to repair and resell devices older than Iphone X. Devices with cracked screens, requiring battery/ charging port/ case/ button replacement, of fully working traded in https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in ones. What do you think happens to perfectly working iphone 8 plus worth ~$300 after its been traded in? Its not being resold https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/iphone , it goes into a blender https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYshVbcEmUc
Post reply on HN